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 Post subject: Re: More strutless love
PostPosted: Fri Aug 09, 2013 6:08 pm 
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Peter_Frank wrote:
coleman wrote:
can you self launch the kite off the wing tip using a tether?

i would think it might be a problem doing that if there is no wind in the sail from being fully depowered?


I havent got a strutless myself, but can not see any issues here whatsoever :D

As there IS wind in the sail, even if fully depowered - as if not, our kites could not stand on the side upright and steady :rollgrin:

An example we all know, is that in light wind we have to power the kite up a bit, when self launching, so it wont fall down on its LE again.

But havent any real experiences - others have to confirm this :wink:

8) Peter



I saw my first struless kite about 2 weekds ago - it was a 10M naish, and seemed to fly fine. I was taking note and it does luff a lot more that a 3 to 5 strut kite, but that wouldn't bother me. Acutally I like the kite to luff a little, it allows me to better tell when the kite is at the edge pulling (like my old sailing days).

One issue I'm seeing with the struless kites and 2 strut kites (naish fly), is carrring the kite to the water in light wind. If your on a beach there is no issue because you are at the exact launch spot. But where I kite we need to rig in a park, roll our lines, then walk into the lake to launch. When there is little wind not have a center strut makes these kites almost impossible to carry without help.

Last light wind session, just two days ago, a saw a guy with a naish fly that had to drag his kite from up over a rocky break water to the park becuase there was no one to help (i was still kiting myself at the time)


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 Post subject: Re: More strutless love
PostPosted: Sat Aug 10, 2013 2:43 am 
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nicor wrote:
Peter_Frank wrote:
coleman wrote:
can you self launch the kite off the wing tip using a tether?

i would think it might be a problem doing that if there is no wind in the sail from being fully depowered?


I havent got a strutless myself, but can not see any issues here whatsoever :D

As there IS wind in the sail, even if fully depowered - as if not, our kites could not stand on the side upright and steady :rollgrin:

An example we all know, is that in light wind we have to power the kite up a bit, when self launching, so it wont fall down on its LE again.

But havent any real experiences - others have to confirm this :wink:

8) Peter



I saw my first struless kite about 2 weekds ago - it was a 10M naish, and seemed to fly fine. I was taking note and it does luff a lot more that a 3 to 5 strut kite, but that wouldn't bother me. Acutally I like the kite to luff a little, it allows me to better tell when the kite is at the edge pulling (like my old sailing days).

One issue I'm seeing with the struless kites and 2 strut kites (naish fly), is carrring the kite to the water in light wind. If your on a beach there is no issue because you are at the exact launch spot. But where I kite we need to rig in a park, roll our lines, then walk into the lake to launch. When there is little wind not have a center strut makes these kites almost impossible to carry without help.

Last light wind session, just two days ago, a saw a guy with a naish fly that had to drag his kite from up over a rocky break water to the park becuase there was no one to help (i was still kiting myself at the time)


That's nonsense. The kite is so light that it's much easier to carry it in little wind than a strutted kite.


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 Post subject: Re: More strutless love
PostPosted: Sat Aug 10, 2013 5:43 am 
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ozonelevel wrote:
nicor wrote:
Peter_Frank wrote:

8) Peter



I saw my first struless kite about 2 weekds ago - it was a 10M naish, and seemed to fly fine. I was taking note and it does luff a lot more that a 3 to 5 strut kite, but that wouldn't bother me. Acutally I like the kite to luff a little, it allows me to better tell when the kite is at the edge pulling (like my old sailing days).

One issue I'm seeing with the struless kites and 2 strut kites (naish fly), is carrring the kite to the water in light wind. If your on a beach there is no issue because you are at the exact launch spot. But where I kite we need to rig in a park, roll our lines, then walk into the lake to launch. When there is little wind not have a center strut makes these kites almost impossible to carry without help.

Last light wind session, just two days ago, a saw a guy with a naish fly that had to drag his kite from up over a rocky break water to the park becuase there was no one to help (i was still kiting myself at the time)


That's nonsense. The kite is so light that it's much easier to carry it in little wind than a strutted kite.


Has nothing to do with weight buddy, but maybe my first post wasn't clear enough. When I wrote little wind, I mean "virtually no wind".

When you have to rig up a kite in an area protected by trees, houses, breakwater..whatever, virtually no wind makes it in to push the kite from underneath and hold it up (assuming of course the kite is turned over, leading edge up). If this is the case you need to carry it without the assistance of the wind, so once you turn the kite over you need to hold it by the middle strut with one hand and leading edge with the other hand until you are getting to water when the wind will finally assist you.

As a test I suggest you pump up your 17M on a zero wind day and see how well you can hold it up without touching the ground,, maybe try walking 50 to 100 yards so you get the idea.

Please correct me if I'm wrong, maybe there are other techniques to carrying these kites in protected areas, but this is what I've seen to date.

Rigging on a beach is not a problem, just pull a back line and off you go.


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 Post subject: Re: More strutless love
PostPosted: Sat Aug 10, 2013 8:15 am 
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nicor wrote:

I saw my first struless kite about 2 weekds ago - it was a 10M naish, and seemed to fly fine. I was taking note and it does luff a lot more that a 3 to 5 strut kite, but that wouldn't bother me. Acutally I like the kite to luff a little, it allows me to better tell when the kite is at the edge pulling (like my old sailing days).

One issue I'm seeing with the struless kites and 2 strut kites (naish fly), is carrring the kite to the water in light wind. If your on a beach there is no issue because you are at the exact launch spot. But where I kite we need to rig in a park, roll our lines, then walk into the lake to launch. When there is little wind not have a center strut makes these kites almost impossible to carry without help.

Last light wind session, just two days ago, a saw a guy with a naish fly that had to drag his kite from up over a rocky break water to the park becuase there was no one to help (i was still kiting myself at the time)


When you. Carry then just use the other arm to lift under the canopy. They weigh so little. It is just a slightly different technique. Source: one of the spots I kite have the same setup.


Having used


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 Post subject: Re: More strutless love
PostPosted: Sat Aug 10, 2013 12:25 pm 
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I got out on the Airush Lithium Zero 18m the other day, thanks to KBA on Koh Samui for the demo.

So long as you baby it around, it works nicely. Really insistent pull from the first stroke.

Unfortunately, get a little aggressive with loading it or sending it hard, and the LE buckles :( Good kite for the light wind for the average rider but I think as a session saver for the Clydesdales, there are better kites. For the extra 1200 grams, I'll take my Flite any day.

And yes, it was pumped up HARD.


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 Post subject: Re: More strutless love
PostPosted: Sat Aug 10, 2013 12:57 pm 
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nicor wrote:

Has nothing to do with weight buddy, but maybe my first post wasn't clear enough. When I wrote little wind, I mean "virtually no wind".

When you have to rig up a kite in an area protected by trees, houses, breakwater..whatever, virtually no wind makes it in to push the kite from underneath and hold it up (assuming of course the kite is turned over, leading edge up). If this is the case you need to carry it without the assistance of the wind, so once you turn the kite over you need to hold it by the middle strut with one hand and leading edge with the other hand until you are getting to water when the wind will finally assist you.

As a test I suggest you pump up your 17M on a zero wind day and see how well you can hold it up without touching the ground,, maybe try walking 50 to 100 yards so you get the idea.

Please correct me if I'm wrong, maybe there are other techniques to carrying these kites in protected areas, but this is what I've seen to date.

Rigging on a beach is not a problem, just pull a back line and off you go.


In zero wind all the really big kites are very difficult to carry. The best feature for that would probably be a well pumped up thick leading edge and thick centre strut, where you can use the strut as a lever to try to keep the rest of the kite off the ground.

The kites now are working from about 7mph and staying in the air at about 5mph. Usually on the way out you would be walking into the wind and the kite will clear the ground, but if the wind drops below the useable range and you are walking back with the wind, carrying big kites is a problem.
With a well pumped up 17m Cloud, you should be able to carry it with the L/E vertical for a short distance, but other than letting some air out and folding it (EDIT: letting air out and folding doesn't work. The canopy makes it too slippery to hold), I don't see how it could be carried in no wind clear of the ground for any distance unless you sprint holding it.

It would be nice if you could walk with it like this. :)


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Last edited by ronnie on Thu Aug 15, 2013 8:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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 Post subject: Re: More strutless love
PostPosted: Sat Aug 10, 2013 1:05 pm 
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had a "no central strut" kite and agree with nicor, it´s a pain to move around in the lowest winds


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 Post subject: Re: More strutless love
PostPosted: Sat Aug 10, 2013 5:17 pm 
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braveman wrote:
Is there anyone that is not happy with his/hers Cloud ?
I might order one for myself :roll:



the strut-less idea has caught my imagination big time and was lucky enough to try the 13m cloud
in zanzibar last week. two sessions, one average 10 knts the other average 13 knts. weight 73 kg, board 132 cm.
relaunch was surprisingly easy, played with it in a low shore break and managed to relaunch each time! impressive.
found it heavy and slow on the bar, compared to the 13 edge and 14 bandit that I was comparing the cloud with, both flown in the same conditions. did not manage to dial in the jumping technique, I was all over the place, time on the kite would have helped sort this one out.
what was impressive was the first session as far as the low wind capability of the kite but was so disappointed with the slow and wishy washy feeling through the bar that seemed so alien to what I was used to, maybe again time would have helped sort this one out.
out of the three kites the bar pressure on the cloud was far heavier, like driving a heavy truck with power assisted steering.
the extra 2 knts low end are not enough to persuade me to buy the cloud. I love flying kites and if I don,t develop a reasonable relationship within two sessions the kite is not for me.
love the idea of strut-less but a long way to go to get the responsiveness I demand from a kite


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 Post subject: Re: More strutless love
PostPosted: Sat Aug 10, 2013 6:13 pm 
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marekmk wrote:
braveman wrote:
Is there anyone that is not happy with his/hers Cloud ?
I might order one for myself :roll:



the strut-less idea has caught my imagination big time and was lucky enough to try the 13m cloud
in zanzibar last week. two sessions, one average 10 knts the other average 13 knts. weight 73 kg, board 132 cm.
relaunch was surprisingly easy, played with it in a low shore break and managed to relaunch each time! impressive.
found it heavy and slow on the bar, compared to the 13 edge and 14 bandit that I was comparing the cloud with, both flown in the same conditions. did not manage to dial in the jumping technique, I was all over the place, time on the kite would have helped sort this one out.
what was impressive was the first session as far as the low wind capability of the kite but was so disappointed with the slow and wishy washy feeling through the bar that seemed so alien to what I was used to, maybe again time would have helped sort this one out.
out of the three kites the bar pressure on the cloud was far heavier, like driving a heavy truck with power assisted steering.
the extra 2 knts low end are not enough to persuade me to buy the cloud. I love flying kites and if I don,t develop a reasonable relationship within two sessions the kite is not for me.
love the idea of strut-less but a long way to go to get the responsiveness I demand from a kite


You must have had a weird bar setup. My 13 Cloud turns faster than my 11 Edge and has less bar pressure.


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 Post subject: Re: More strutless love
PostPosted: Sat Aug 10, 2013 6:25 pm 
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marekmk wrote:
braveman wrote:
Is there anyone that is not happy with his/hers Cloud ?
I might order one for myself :roll:
the strut-less idea has caught my imagination big time and was lucky enough to try the 13m cloud
in zanzibar last week. two sessions, one average 10 knts the other average 13 knts. weight 73 kg, board 132 cm.
relaunch was surprisingly easy, played with it in a low shore break and managed to relaunch each time! impressive.
Yes, that's correct :thumb:
Quote:
found it heavy and slow on the bar, compared to the 13 edge and 14 bandit that I was comparing the cloud with, both flown in the same conditions. did not manage to dial in the jumping technique, I was all over the place, time on the kite would have helped sort this one out.

Talking about jumping, it sucks, the 13m has a power of a 9m in the same wind :jump:
Quote:
what was impressive was the first session as far as the low wind capability of the kite but was so disappointed with the slow and wishy washy feeling through the bar that seemed so alien to what I was used to, maybe again time would have helped sort this one out.
Agreed :thumb:
Quote:
out of the three kites the bar pressure on the cloud was far heavier, like driving a heavy truck with power assisted steering.
Unless if you're a body builder than good for you, but it's not for recreational people having fun out there and pull the shoulder out in medium to high winds.
Good way to develop tendonitis :alarm:
Quote:
the extra 2 knts low end are not enough to persuade me to buy the cloud.

I'm with you on that because it's not better than similar size of inflatable or foil kites, so what's the point :?: :duh:
Quote:
I love flying kites and if I don,t develop a reasonable relationship within two sessions the kite is not for me.
love the idea of strut-less but a long way to go to get the responsiveness I demand from a kite
And those are the real facts NO MATTER HOW YOU TWEAK THE BAR :clap:
Look at the short commings of strutless design, Opinions of Gigi;) & Hansen Aerosports
HERE! to know more :!:


Last edited by Aummm on Sat Aug 10, 2013 6:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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