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 Post subject: Re: Handle passes too dangerous long-term for shoulders?
PostPosted: Mon Jul 22, 2013 8:21 am 
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TheJoe wrote:
Kiteus Polaris wrote:
My weak shoulders don't just keep me from handle passes but makes all unhooked riding a true pain. It's the force upwards, even when I keep my albows low that makes both my shoulders hurt. I can't even use below bar depower cause I can't project enough force with my arm in that angle.
E.g. triceps push down at the gym is an exercise that is extremely painfull for my shoulders. Anyone else experiencing similar pain or knowing how to exercise it away?
I would appreciate some help A LOT cause it limits my riding so much :(


Do what I did and go see an orthopedic surgeon that specializes in sports medicine. I had the same problem and it was arthritis. Life is so much better now that I have taken care of the problem.

By the way it was not kiting that ruined my shoulders it was heavy lifting at the gym.


Was it the shoulder joint or the AC joint?
I've had some problems with arthritis in my right AC joint but it is getting better. This is recently but the problem I describe above has been there for so many years and in both shulders, that I thought it was a different problem. Did you have to do surgery?


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 Post subject: Re: Handle passes too dangerous long-term for shoulders?
PostPosted: Mon Jul 22, 2013 12:08 pm 
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Kiteus Polaris wrote:
TheJoe wrote:
Kiteus Polaris wrote:
My weak shoulders don't just keep me from handle passes but makes all unhooked riding a true pain. It's the force upwards, even when I keep my albows low that makes both my shoulders hurt. I can't even use below bar depower cause I can't project enough force with my arm in that angle.
E.g. triceps push down at the gym is an exercise that is extremely painfull for my shoulders. Anyone else experiencing similar pain or knowing how to exercise it away?
I would appreciate some help A LOT cause it limits my riding so much :(


Do what I did and go see an orthopedic surgeon that specializes in sports medicine. I had the same problem and it was arthritis. Life is so much better now that I have taken care of the problem.

By the way it was not kiting that ruined my shoulders it was heavy lifting at the gym.


Was it the shoulder joint or the AC joint?
I've had some problems with arthritis in my right AC joint but it is getting better. This is recently but the problem I describe above has been there for so many years and in both shulders, that I thought it was a different problem. Did you have to do surgery?


If you want to avoid your shoulder problems coming back, I really can't say enough how important these exercises are:
http://www.kiteboardingexercises.com/in ... deo_id=134

The exercises will make your shoulder stable and thereby making sure that your shoulder has an even load throughout the ligaments surrounding the joint and that will make your shoulder last for many years to come. And lower the risk of arthritis siqnificantly. And even wear on the shoulders ligaments and the joint is no problem. Normal restitution will take care of that. But if the shoulder isn't stable enough the wear will be uneven and that causes arthritis.

Think of it this way. If your weels on your car isn't alligned it will pull of to one side. And even though you try to stear straight, you just end up breaking your bearings and steering faster. Same thing with the shoulder. If your rotator cuff isn't evenly strong and the shoulder is not stable enough, it will lead to injuries. I've seen it so many times in the gym, because guys tend to exercise their back more than their front. And totalt neglect the smaller (less maskuline) shoulder exercises. Rotator cuff exercises etc...

My exercises will make the rotator cuff evenly strong all the way around and make the shoulder more stable. Especially in extensed position (relative to the fact that an extended shoulder isn't very stable). But my exercises also makes te shoulder blade allinged better and that's the fundation of a strong and stable shoulder.

And stretching (good long 2min stretches) is also very important, if you have petruding shoulder blades or other kind of postural problems...

But you're right Dimitri, the shoulder isn't very stable, when you're stretched out and dragging after your kite after an unhooked crash. The shoulder will never be stable in that position, because all the muscles that are pulling humerus down and in are not in the strongest position to maximize stabillity.

Arm above shoulder level decreases stability. And the higher your arm is, the less stable the shoulder is. So let go of the bar... :)


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 Post subject: Re: Handle passes too dangerous long-term for shoulders?
PostPosted: Mon Jul 22, 2013 1:26 pm 
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Kiteus Polaris: It was the AC joint for me. The problem is that the shoulder is so complex that it could be anything. The longer you wait the worse the damage could get. My arthritis was so bad it damaging other tissue in my shoulder. My right arm had limited range of motion.

We use our shoulders for everything. Don't you think it's better to have them looked at and maybe fixed to keep your quality of life.


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 Post subject: Re: Handle passes too dangerous long-term for shoulders?
PostPosted: Mon Jul 22, 2013 2:20 pm 
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Something I've realized is that everyone seems to have different opinions about shoulder problems. I've been to different physiotherapits and orthopedist with quite different opinions.
Still, based on several examinations, I am now quite confident that it is the AC joint that that has been hurting (X ray supports that as well) but I am also quite sure that bad posture (mainly cause of what I am doing right now, sitting by the bloody PC all day) and weak upper back is something that may be what ignited the problem togeather with too heavy press exercises with bad technique.
Having rested the shoulder from weight lifting etc has probably been quite good cause now finally my sore shoulder is getting better and I have much better reach.
Hearing from Joe that AC arthrithis has given similar symptoms as I have just strenghten my approach to continuing beeing careful with heavy lifting and also waiting some more with the unhooked stuff.
Larses exercises are some of the good ones for improving shoulder stability and posture and I will start doing them now as my pain is much better (except when un hooking etc).
I think I will add this one as well: http://www.coreperformance.com/knowledge/movements/floor-posture-slides.html
Thanks guys!


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 Post subject: Re: Handle passes too dangerous long-term for shoulders?
PostPosted: Mon Jul 22, 2013 2:30 pm 
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Thanks Larse, interesting to read your adwise. I have applied some of your exercises to my routines this winter and I can feel the difference! ;)


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 Post subject: Re: Handle passes too dangerous long-term for shoulders?
PostPosted: Mon Jul 22, 2013 2:38 pm 
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besttaste wrote:
Thanks Larse, interesting to read your adwise. I have applied some of your exercises to my routines this winter and I can feel the difference! ;)


Cool, I'm glad it works for you :)


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 Post subject: Re: Handle passes too dangerous long-term for shoulders?
PostPosted: Mon Jul 22, 2013 10:42 pm 
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Larse wrote:
If you do the right exercises to prevent it, you shouldn't get .


I used to believe this up to my late 30's. But now I think this is incorrect.
Sure you can reduce the chance of injury. But ultimately if you expose your body to repeated trauma(extreme exerice and crashing) it will become damaged not matter how much prevention you undertake.

This is something your average dude in his 20's does not believe will happen to him.

I think the reality is you need to ask the question. Is this style of riding worth wrecking my body for the rest of my life.?

If the answer is yes. Carry on.

If no. A change is required.

I faced this same question 8 years ago when I was racing downhill mountainbikes nationally.
The answer was no. I could not carry on and improve my current skill level without high risk.

So I sought a sort to give me the same thrill will less risk. kiting popped up and now my sport of choice for crazy to risk level ratio.

But I limit what I do to preserve my body so I can carry on for another 30+ years of action.

For me the risk of injury for wake style is too high. I'm not interested.


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 Post subject: Re: Handle passes too dangerous long-term for shoulders?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 23, 2013 12:05 am 
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It's difficult to gauge the price, when all the crash-crash / bang-bang stuff is so much fun! :D
I am now 54 and a bit busted up, but even at 40 years old, I had no concept of what was coming.
When things started breaking, it was a big surprise to me, somehow I assumed that my body was just gonna stay the same forever, I felt kind of dumb when I realized that I was breakable.
Got a buddy that just got two new hips!.....he used to be a pro Jetski racer/freestyle rider.
Another friend has spent a lot of time on BMX bikes and has had a lot of surgery to fix broken parts.
For me, it is a repaired thumb joint, repaired elbow joint and a "repaired" neck/spine.
Some parts fix better than others, the rebuilt thumb joint feels pretty good, the elbow sucks and my fused neck bones feel like a complete piece of shite..... hurts every single day.
I need a whole pile of stem cells and a bunch of human growth hormone!!! :lol:
I know other fellas my age with the problems that come from sitting on their fat arses for thirty years..
...so I don't know if being careful all your life makes any difference.

So I say, do what you are gonna do...just know that everything has a price. :wink:


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 Post subject: Re: Handle passes too dangerous long-term for shoulders?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 23, 2013 7:33 am 
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plummet wrote:
Larse wrote:
If you do the right exercises to prevent it, you shouldn't get .


I used to believe this up to my late 30's. But now I think this is incorrect.
Sure you can reduce the chance of injury. But ultimately if you expose your body to repeated trauma(extreme exerice and crashing) it will become damaged not matter how much prevention you undertake.



...but with the right the right training, you can minimize the risk significantly. You can never prevent it. And of course you are taking a chance everytime you unhook, because (like I said before) the shoulder is unstable in that position, when you crash.

Kiteboarding is an extreme sport and people get injured. Especially if they pushing them selfes. One other thing people forget is (besides restitution) how long a session should be. After 1-2 hours of kiting (depending on conditions), your body doesn't have the same strength and stability, and risk of injuries are much higher. That's a higher risk factor than unhooking in general. For shoulders, knees and ankles...


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 Post subject: Re: Handle passes too dangerous long-term for shoulders?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 23, 2013 8:16 am 
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Larse wrote:
After 1-2 hours of kiting (depending on conditions), your body doesn't have the same strength and stability, and risk of injuries are much higher. That's a higher risk factor than unhooking in general. For shoulders, knees and ankles...


That's for sure! And combine that with "ok I'll round up this great day by going for that trick I've never ever nailed before and that I didn't want to start of with due to the risk of ruining the whole day" and you have a recipe for disaster


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