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 Post subject: Re: Getting ready for IKO instructors course
PostPosted: Sat Aug 17, 2013 9:23 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2004 1:40 pm
Posts: 667
Location: L.A. & Ventura Counties, CA
NYKiter wrote:
I didnt notice any similar items on your website.
Are you insured? If so, by who?


I didn't ask about what was posted on their web site.

You wouldn't be trying to deflect attention away from the fact that you didn't answer ANY of my questions, would you ?

For your convenience, here they are AGAIN.

NYKiter wrote:
Just completed the course.
Thought it was excellent. Very thorough...I would recommend it to anyone considering being an instructor...god knows there are MANY, MANY launches that could use a few standards in place before access is lost entirely...expert examiner, great feedback, worth every penny.
Hats off to IKO :cool2:


A few Questions.

1. Is there any IKO requirement that their INSTRUCTORS wear helmets when kiting as part of an effort to set a good example ? The answer to this question unequivocally reveals their TRUE safety concerns.

2. Did you get a copy of anything that you signed ? The answers to this and questions 3-5 reveals how transparent and truthful they are concerning their TRUE goals (since the answer to #1 will reveal that it can NOT be to promote kiting safety).

3. Did you have to sign any kind of release or waiver which released any OTHER entity besides the establishment you were at ?

4. Did they go over an actual copy of the "insurance" which was a major reason for your (and others) wanting their "certification" ? If so, was a copy provided as part of the course material for you to study separately or if you wanted to show it to a knowledgeable expert ?

5. Did they provide any document alleging that it specified ALL the costs which you will be required to incur in order to maintain instructor status and/or progress to higher instructor status ?

6. Did their instruction cover things like how to give instruction both in and/or regarding problems associated with ocean problems such as surf, seaweed, kelp, jellyfish, etc., or deal with problems caused by locations with bad footing (such as caused by coral, rocks etc), strong currents (as at some surf or river locations), how to explain to novices the pros AND cons of virtually all kitesurfing choices (other than helmet use), etc. The answer to this question indicates the thoroughness and therefore value of the supposed "certification" regarding being able to give relevant instruction if the particular requirements of a location are not the same as the presumably generic requirements upon which the course is based.

Richard M.
Malibu Kitesurfing - since 2002
(310) - 430 - KITE (5483)
http://www.MalibuKitesurfing.NET
kfRichard@MalibuKitesurfing.NET


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 Post subject: Re: Getting ready for IKO instructors course
PostPosted: Sat Aug 17, 2013 10:23 pm 
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Joined: Sat Oct 01, 2011 6:49 am
Posts: 48
Location: Stillbay - South Africa
    To answer Richardm - I did the course last year and take it that is still the same.

    1 Yes - helmets are to be worn by pupils and instructors, as well as life vests or impact vest for students.
    2 Yes.
    3. No
    4. No - Refer to the policy. We are kite surfing instructors not insurance salesman.
    5. Yes
    6. Yes many different scenarios ... perhaps not all, but certainly much more than relevant to the course venue

    Hope that answers your questions.


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     Post subject: Re: Getting ready for IKO instructors course
    PostPosted: Sun Aug 18, 2013 12:29 am 
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    Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2004 1:40 pm
    Posts: 667
    Location: L.A. & Ventura Counties, CA
    Timop wrote:
      To answer Richardm - I did the course last year and take it that is still the same.

      1 Yes - helmets are to be worn by pupils and instructors, as well as life vests or impact vest for students.
      2 Yes.
      3. No
      4. No - Refer to the policy. We are kite surfing instructors not insurance salesman.
      5. Yes
      6. Yes many different scenarios ... perhaps not all, but certainly much more than relevant to the course venue

      Hope that answers your questions.

      Thanks for your response.
      A. Where did you take the course?

      B. As to question #1, I asked if there was a REQUIREMENT that INSTRUCTORS wear a helmet WHEN kiting - NOT when giving a lesson.

      My point being that if it is the IKO's policy to insist on STUDENTS wearing helmets, but allowing their INSTRUCTORS to kite without one, this policy actually PROMOTES NOT wearing helmets since the students then believe that helmet use indicates feared "beginner" status.

      1a. However, your answer raises an interesting point. Do they describe what happens if an IKO "school" permits their instructors to disregard alleged "requirements" such as your alleged requirement that their instructors wear a helmet while giving lessons?

      1b. Furthermore, can you point to anywhere where these alleged requirements are stated in writing?

      2a. What documents that you signed did you receive a copy of?
      2b. What documents that you signed did you NOT receive a copy of?

      3a. Are you SURE that the Release/Waiver you signed ONLY released the establishment you were at? All the Release/Waivers from IKO schools (only in the US) that I've been able to review unconscionably required the participant to release FOREVER virtually EVERYONE (including ALL State and local employees, other kiters and the general public) from ANY liability for ANYTHING.

      Perhaps you could post a copy or let me know WHERE I could examine this Release/Waiver.

      4a. I understand that they have a different insurance carrier than they used to use. The previous policy was 56 pages of professionally crafted confusion concealing the fact that it was virtually completely worthless (for instance, by NOT covering STUDENTS during lessons). It ALSO REQUIRED that the previously described Release/Waivers be signed or it was completely VOID.

      I would LOVE to refer to the "policy". Do you have ANY IDEA how to obtain one, since the so-called "insurance" is the main reason why most schools and instructors say that they join and remain with the IKO.

      5a. Can you share this document and/or the pertinent information therein with us interested readers or perhaps point to anyplace the IKO is willing to publish it?

      6a. Really. For instance, I'd be very interested in how you teach an instructor how to teach novices how to deal with surf at the shallow, marshy area described by NYkiter.

      Richard M.
      Malibu Kitesurfing - since 2002
      (310) - 430 - KITE (5483)
      http://www.MalibuKitesurfing.NET
      kfRichard@MalibuKitesurfing.NET


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       Post subject: Re: Getting ready for IKO instructors course
      PostPosted: Sun Aug 18, 2013 12:53 am 
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      Joined: Fri Mar 22, 2013 9:17 pm
      Posts: 712
      You still have yet to answer who your insurance carrier is...


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       Post subject: Re: Getting ready for IKO instructors course
      PostPosted: Sun Aug 18, 2013 5:24 am 
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      Joined: Thu Nov 28, 2002 1:00 am
      Posts: 575
      Hilarious. So predictable. The wannabe lawyer just can't get enough.

      I'm glad that a few people found some value in the course and are happy with the time, effort and money spent.

      Have fun and try to be safe.

      :)



      RichardM wrote:
      Timop wrote:
        To answer Richardm - I did the course last year and take it that is still the same.

        1 Yes - helmets are to be worn by pupils and instructors, as well as life vests or impact vest for students.
        2 Yes.
        3. No
        4. No - Refer to the policy. We are kite surfing instructors not insurance salesman.
        5. Yes
        6. Yes many different scenarios ... perhaps not all, but certainly much more than relevant to the course venue

        Hope that answers your questions.

        Thanks for your response.
        A. Where did you take the course?

        B. As to question #1, I asked if there was a REQUIREMENT that INSTRUCTORS wear a helmet WHEN kiting - NOT when giving a lesson.

        My point being that if it is the IKO's policy to insist on STUDENTS wearing helmets, but allowing their INSTRUCTORS to kite without one, this policy actually PROMOTES NOT wearing helmets since the students then believe that helmet use indicates feared "beginner" status.

        1a. However, your answer raises an interesting point. Do they describe what happens if an IKO "school" permits their instructors to disregard alleged "requirements" such as your alleged requirement that their instructors wear a helmet while giving lessons?

        1b. Furthermore, can you point to anywhere where these alleged requirements are stated in writing?

        2a. What documents that you signed did you receive a copy of?
        2b. What documents that you signed did you NOT receive a copy of?

        3a. Are you SURE that the Release/Waiver you signed ONLY released the establishment you were at? All the Release/Waivers from IKO schools (only in the US) that I've been able to review unconscionably required the participant to release FOREVER virtually EVERYONE (including ALL State and local employees, other kiters and the general public) from ANY liability for ANYTHING.

        Perhaps you could post a copy or let me know WHERE I could examine this Release/Waiver.

        4a. I understand that they have a different insurance carrier than they used to use. The previous policy was 56 pages of professionally crafted confusion concealing the fact that it was virtually completely worthless (for instance, by NOT covering STUDENTS during lessons). It ALSO REQUIRED that the previously described Release/Waivers be signed or it was completely VOID.

        I would LOVE to refer to the "policy". Do you have ANY IDEA how to obtain one, since the so-called "insurance" is the main reason why most schools and instructors say that they join and remain with the IKO.

        5a. Can you share this document and/or the pertinent information therein with us interested readers or perhaps point to anyplace the IKO is willing to publish it?

        6a. Really. For instance, I'd be very interested in how you teach an instructor how to teach novices how to deal with surf at the shallow, marshy area described by NYkiter.

        Richard M.
        Malibu Kitesurfing - since 2002
        (310) - 430 - KITE (5483)
        http://www.MalibuKitesurfing.NET
        kfRichard@MalibuKitesurfing.NET


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