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 Post subject: 2011 Cabrinha Crossbow, 7 struts
PostPosted: Sun Aug 18, 2013 7:19 pm 
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The 2011 Cabrinha Crossbow is a nice kite. The challenge is while the 13m is a nice kite to fly on lighter wind days, provides lots of power and lofty jumps, when the wind happens to drop below 10m, the kite can become too heavy to fly and just drops out of the sky. An alternative is to look at a strutless kite (e.g. Cloud) for those average 10 knots or less days, don't kite at all unless the wind is steady above 10 knots, or look at a newer kite with few (say 5 max) struts.

The other challenge with this kite is that it's slow turning. Advice given is "sine the heck out of it". That doesn't work well with this kite. Maybe with a Switchblade, but not with this Crossbow.

Anyway, anyone have similar observations?


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 Post subject: Re: 2011 Cabrinha Crossbow, 7 struts
PostPosted: Sun Aug 18, 2013 7:48 pm 
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I had the same kite and noticed this too. I upgraded to the 2013 Xbow 13m and thought i might be making a mistake.

There were significant improvements over the 2011. 5 struts and a faster turning kite. I don't know how much lighter the kite is, but the main difference is that the kite isn't a slow so in light wind you can keep it moving. I have had it on a race board in 7kts when everyone else had to go back to the beach...

One trick with the 2011 is to sheet out when you're sineing the kite towards 12 oclock, and sheet in while holding both hands at the end of the bars to give it better steering control in power with lighter winds.

Also make sure the lines are tuned correctly, my front lines stretched about 6 inches over a single season.


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 Post subject: Re: 2011 Cabrinha Crossbow, 7 struts
PostPosted: Sun Aug 18, 2013 7:57 pm 
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you guys are talking about a race proven design. xbows are not slow.

it is not designed to be maneuverable.

dont buy a race kite if you want something you can whip through kiteloops and tight turns etc.

you like going in a straight line, getting upwind easy, long floaty boosts, buy a race kite.


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 Post subject: Re: 2011 Cabrinha Crossbow, 7 struts
PostPosted: Sun Aug 18, 2013 8:00 pm 
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Thanks. The lines are tuned regularly. What I find is the switchblades seem to be in the air still while the Crossbow is falling back and hitting the water. Anyway, sometimes it's probably just me being stubborn and not deciding soon enough to head back to the beach and land my kite when I sense the wind dropping.


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 Post subject: Re: 2011 Cabrinha Crossbow, 7 struts
PostPosted: Sun Aug 18, 2013 8:01 pm 
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bnthere wrote:
you like going in a straight line, getting upwind easy, long floaty boosts, buy a race kite.


Exactly how I ride it.

shawn13 wrote:
I have had it on a race board in 7kts when everyone else had to go back to the beach...


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 Post subject: Re: 2011 Cabrinha Crossbow, 7 struts
PostPosted: Sun Aug 18, 2013 8:10 pm 
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bnthere wrote:
you like going in a straight line, getting upwind easy, long floaty boosts, buy a race kite.


I enjoy using this kite when the wind is steady above at least 10/11 knots. I'm not expecting to do fancy tricks.

The problem I'm experiencing is when the wind suddenly drops, so does the kite. Other guys on Switchblades casually ride back to the beach and may even turn around and head out. I'm stuck trying to relaunch or experience the kite get covered with water and then I'm really stuck. I'm not expecting to ride in 5-8 knots. I'd just like to be able to keep it in the air enough to head back to the beach at least like everyone else seems to.

Instead of the usual advice "steer aggressively", I'm starting to think it's just the way the kite is designed and built... two extra struts also adds to the weight etc. The kite literally just drops like a feather when others are still riding.


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 Post subject: Re: 2011 Cabrinha Crossbow, 7 struts
PostPosted: Sun Aug 18, 2013 8:15 pm 
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shawn13 wrote:
I have had it on a race board in 7kts when everyone else had to go back to the beach...


Shawn13 how do you find the 2013 CB 13 with a lightwind/large/door-style TT?


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 Post subject: Re: 2011 Cabrinha Crossbow, 7 struts
PostPosted: Sun Aug 18, 2013 8:53 pm 
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I fly North kites and have just accepted that kites get too heavy below a certain point, so for my weight not much point in anything larger than a 10m kite, or perhaps 11. So even if heavier riders use a 14m it will not help me very much. Once I had a 13m Rebel, but I spent most of time trying to relaunch it. Same story with a 12m. Even a kite with a lot of bottom end won't help me much because it will just drag me down wind.

That said, having no clue about Cabrinhas other than they pull a lot, I have seen quite a few Cabrinha riders on the water when most others are not.

Anyhow, below a certain point like say, 11-12 knots, traditional kite design doesn't work very well. Then you need weight optimized kites like Ozone Zephyr, ..., or the Cloud. Cabrinha is coming out with the 2014 Contra light wind specific kite.


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 Post subject: Re: 2011 Cabrinha Crossbow, 7 struts
PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2013 1:20 am 
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ok, i have a few minutes, i will give you a good answer to some of your original questions:

it may be the kite, different kites perform better or worse in low wind situations, weight is one factor, overall design is another, and the tuning of the kite and how you fly it is a final variable.

the kite design is what it is. the tuning and your handling is the variable.

tuning: it is common for kites (especially pre 2012) to be factory tuned for a few inches of oversheeting. it is also common for many brands to recommend a tighter outside line connection point for lightwind flying (more power). for many people, this creates a problem, and in fact hinders light wind performance.

oversheeting: a kite is oversheeted (and will stall - fall backward with a tight canopy and 0 power) when there is too much overall backline tension for the moment.

interestingly, kites can handle more overall backline tension without stalling when the wind is stronger and there is more wind energy pushing through the canopy. in lighter winds a kite cannot handle the same amount of backline tension as in stronger wind. in light wind you may find it easier to keep your kite flying, and particularly climbing with speed, if you depower it and take some of the tension out of the backlines.

other factors that contribute to stalling: the position of the kite in the wind window, and the direction the kite is trying to fly (this is angle of attack) ... upwards is the most difficult angle for a kite to fly (high angle of attack, and fighting gravity). many people know that a kite pointed upwards will climb faster when sheeted out (less backline tension). it is recommended that you tune your kite to the conditions, so that you can hold your bar all the way in and steer aggressively without accidentally oversheeting and stalling the kite.

so .... you might get better lightwind performance out of your kite by depowering it, either by lengthening the backlines at the attachment point on the kite, or by using the trim on the bar.

kite flying: in light winds the center of the powerzone is where you need to be, and the edges of the wind are a problem. tight radius turns and "oversteering" on up and downward powerstrokes (cutting the kite slightly back towards the opposite side of the wind, esp on the way up), will help keep the kite in the wind. parked kites along the edge or above your head are in a weak position. there is a small catch, although tight turns are generally much more effective than sweeping long radius turns because tight turns keep the kite more centered in the wind window, some kites are more susceptible to twisting and stalling when turned tightly. (you can rip some kites through tighter radius turns with more consistent power delivery and flight than others) thats just getting to know your kite.

this is a topic that comes up a lot in lessons, it may not be the answers to your specific situation, but if stalling is the type of "falling" your talking about, then this might help. loosen up your backlines, a lot.


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 Post subject: Re: 2011 Cabrinha Crossbow, 7 struts
PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2013 1:43 am 
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Cheers to all the responses thus far


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