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 Post subject: beginner accident ...who is at fault...
PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2013 11:58 am 
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We had a crazy accident today. Beginner with 12m , light winds, gusty and tricky spot, but safe ish.
He had lessons, but not more then the standard 3 , someone sold him a 12m and told him he is ready to go anywhere. He was fine where he learned and thought he was ok to go anywhere.
Long story short: kitloop, flight, crash,hit bystander, rocks,kite over tree and house..... both are fine, bruised but shaken.
Anyway, some say they are idiots, and how could they and wtf,...etc...
I say, they did not know better, and who ever teached them and sold them the kite, is the idiot.
I helped them launch the kite, but then walked away. I should have stayed .
In any case, I just don't think calling beginners idiots and then go kite without helping, is the right thing.
We where all beginners and if we where lucky enough not to be hurt by our mistake, well, count your lucky stars.
The dude was lucky and realized he needed more lessons. I told him, he needs to learn from this and practice where he is more safe. Same spot. Smaller kite though.
Oh, boy, I'm going to get shit for this....
....hey, ...no kea


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 Post subject: Re: beginner accident ...who is at fault...
PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2013 12:04 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2010 1:11 am
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Location: Puerto Rico
Hmmm, are you liable for lanching a beginer?


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 Post subject: Re: beginner accident ...who is at fault...
PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2013 12:09 pm 
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Joined: Tue May 01, 2007 1:11 pm
Posts: 514
FabsPH wrote:
We had a crazy accident today. Beginner with 12m , light winds, gusty and tricky spot, but safe ish.
He had lessons, but not more then the standard 3 , someone sold him a 12m and told him he is ready to go anywhere. He was fine where he learned and thought he was ok to go anywhere.
Long story short: kitloop, flight, crash,hit bystander, rocks,kite over tree and house..... both are fine, bruised but shaken.
Anyway, some say they are idiots, and how could they and wtf,...etc...
I say, they did not know better, and who ever teached them and sold them the kite, is the idiot.
I helped them launch the kite, but then walked away. I should have stayed .
In any case, I just don't think calling beginners idiots and then go kite without helping, is the right thing.
We where all beginners and if we where lucky enough not to be hurt by our mistake, well, count your lucky stars.
The dude was lucky and realized he needed more lessons. I told him, he needs to learn from this and practice where he is more safe. Same spot. Smaller kite though.
Oh, boy, I'm going to get shit for this....
....hey, ...no kea


No you re right ...beginers are idiots for sure since with that kind of equipment(total depower,100% releash,lots of bar throw and excelent flight abilities of modern kites) manage to do accidents like that. :cry: :o :angryfire:

When i started back in 2001 we didnt know if are we going back again to our homes cause of the DEADLY equipment :(

although we manage to stay untacked and still kiting until now :thumb:


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 Post subject: Re: beginner accident ...who is at fault...
PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2013 12:24 pm 
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Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2004 5:36 am
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Location: Oahu
So did he tell you before?

It is hard for us to judge tho. I think pilot is responsible. Poor other guy...that is what gets me going. :(


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 Post subject: Re: beginner accident ...who is at fault...
PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2013 1:01 pm 
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Today's 12's most of them have more power and Depower if you have experience than the Ols Standard: "Hey, all you need is a 12M once you have 3 lessons and you are Golden! Am I wrong here?

And of course you have some that Know everything and after the Std 3 lessons there is nothing more possible that they could learn!


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 Post subject: Re: beginner accident ...who is at fault...
PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2013 1:16 pm 
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Joined: Mon Sep 04, 2006 9:26 pm
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Location: Denmark
Hard to place blame.
I get the impression that too many instructors pay way to little attention on launching and landing. But even if that is all in the place, a random beginner will suddenly freeze up and hold tight onto the bar and force a kiteloop. Training letting the bar out will not remove the natural instinct of hanging on when things do not go quite as planned in a more hostile environment than water. Through lessons you can minimize the chance that things go wrong for long enough until the beginner has learned to relax when something unintended happens. Beginners should seek out the space to allow for mistakes, that much you can expect even from someone without a clue.


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 Post subject: Re: beginner accident ...who is at fault...
PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2013 1:36 pm 
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Joined: Thu Feb 17, 2011 2:19 pm
Posts: 59
Location: North Texas
Just about everyone can share some blame yet I could be an advocate for the beginner. He's just wanting (and needing) experience. He doesn't know all the locations to learn at, he doesn't know what could go wrong, he (like you and everyone else) just wants to ride.

If you're an instructor who just taught him, don't just say "well, the rest is up to you". Direct them to safe launches, let fellow kiters know to be on the look-out for the newbie, offer an "intructor-lite" fee, etc...

If you're an experience kiter and you see a newbie (yes, you can visually pick-out the newbies), talk to them. Get a feel of their general competence. You may think "I don't have time to talk, I wanna kite", but just think how much kiting you're gonna get when your launch site gets shut-down because a newbie causes a serious accident. If the conditions of the day are not suitable for a newbie, tactfully let them know that today is not the day. Offer or find someone to offer to meet this person another day or at another launch that better suits them.

Now just to be fair...the newbie just might really be an idiot.


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 Post subject: Re: beginner accident ...who is at fault...
PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2013 2:55 pm 
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so you launched a newbie without a clear downwind area.


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 Post subject: Re: beginner accident ...who is at fault...
PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2013 3:10 pm 
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14ToeSide wrote:
after the Std 3 lessons


3 lessons is standard? I don't think I know anyone who took 3 lessons. I thought a single 3-5 hours lesson was standard? You definitely do need some help from other kiters after the lesson though.

Glad everyone was alright!


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 Post subject: Re: beginner accident ...who is at fault...
PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2013 3:19 pm 
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there was nobody downwind...he flew the kite, the guy walked downwind, winds where 10mph, no danger,..... well, guess there was.
Did not see it coming, watching him flying kite, walking back to get board. LOOKED OK.
SO, wups, my bad then...

When I started kiting, there was no safety, depower, etc... and I got f kd,... his kite , who cares if it had safety,.. it all happened in a split second.
Anyway, all are ok, and if one thinks they are 100% safe 100% of the time,... go f off !

cheers


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