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 Post subject: Re: beginner accident ...who is at fault...
PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2013 3:50 pm 
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When I was a beginner, I must say that almost no experienced kiter warned me for any reason. And as a beginner you cannot be sure if the wind is ok for your kite, etc. So I agree that everybody could spend 1 min or so to help someone. Most kiters do not care even if you are asking for help and that's annoying. Is shows that this sport has a lot of idiots too.


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 Post subject: Re: beginner accident ...who is at fault...
PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2013 5:16 pm 
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So what actually happened? I can't understand from the description why the guy crashed. Like most people, I only took one lesson myself and I managed not to hit any trees or houses. Seems like common sense to get in the water and away from land before you try to continue the learning process.


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 Post subject: Re: beginner accident ...who is at fault...
PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2013 5:17 pm 
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bnthere wrote:
so you launched a newbie without a clear downwind area.


so you would have told/explained to this individual that they should not launch there and that you were unwilling to give them a launch?

I am willing to put money on that in a real world situation the overwhelming majority would avoid confrontation and just give someone a launch rather than a talking to. This would obviously change if you had learned a lesson like this in the past, or if your spot was in jeopardy due to kookville launches.


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 Post subject: Re: beginner accident ...who is at fault...
PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2013 5:35 pm 
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I think good advice for any beginner that is about to launch their kite is to talk to the other kitera on the beach and explain to then they are just beginning and they had lessons but to keep an eye on things for them. I did this and it was a lot easier on me because i at least knew there was one more set of eyes more experienced than mine on what i was doing. I didnt have any issues but it was nice.


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 Post subject: Re: beginner accident ...who is at fault...
PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2013 6:52 pm 
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Who's to blame... The kiter end of story. You and only you are to blam for your actions. So someone told you... Go for it... Doesn't mean they are to blame.

Now I too went out on my own after only a couple lessons. Was I really ready NO, did I need lots of help from locals YES. All anyone can do is thier best. If you are nice enough to help someone launch, that's a good thing. It's not your responsibility to make sure they are a perfect kiter. Although its also nice to take the time to help someone that wants some advice.

I also believe the only way to learn is threw actions. You can tell someone to let go over and over... Untell something happens to them they won't learn. Hopefully it's not too bad.

I've been helping a friend learn... He took 5-6 lessons. Before every launch I say "first sign of trouble let go and release safty before you are in real trouble" but two seconds later trouble and he hangs on for dear life. Just natural... But no injury. Hopefully he learns to let go this time but we only know the next time something happens.


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 Post subject: Re: beginner accident ...who is at fault...
PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2013 7:12 pm 
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I guess there will be different views in who is to blame, however IMO the person who is flying the kite is at fault. Beginners are easy to spot. Some beginners are ready to start practicing and some need to take more lessons before practicing. Tough part is communicating to a beginner that they really need to take more lessons before coming out as they are a danger to themselves, persons around them and run a high risk of damaging their gear. Their actions could have a negative impact on the beach access for kiteboarders should something serious go wrong with their attempt to fly their kite. It is great to see someone learning and progressing, who has learnt in their lessons all the core skills (deep water relaunch and self rescue, upwind and down wind body draggin with and without board in deep water), has the minimum level of good kite control required, easily shows the launch/land skills and courtesy to beach users and is wearing the necessary safety gear.


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 Post subject: Re: beginner accident ...who is at fault...
PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2013 7:14 pm 
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rightguard wrote:
Before every launch I say "first sign of trouble let go and release safty before you are in real trouble" but two seconds later trouble and he hangs on for dear life. Just natural... But no injury. Hopefully he learns to let go this time but we only know the next time something happens.

yeah - it just doesn't work, you can tell it hundred times. I have had more success with having someone letting go of the bar in the water, experience nothing happens, then gradually increase power strokes followed by dropping the bar until eventually letting go of the bar mid air. But even then, after some weeks, old fear creeps back - feels unsafe to let go of the bar, unsafe to loose control.


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 Post subject: Re: beginner accident ...who is at fault...
PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2013 10:24 pm 
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The kiter is always responsible for his actions, regardless of how clueless he might be.

Sounds like he had some help in making bad choices however going right back to his instructor.


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 Post subject: Re: beginner accident ...who is at fault...
PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2013 11:47 pm 
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My personal opinion is the beginner is mostly to blame. When I was learning, I remember the adrenaline rush I got heading to the beach because I knew I was doing something quite dangerous. I had received excellent lessons, I had flown my trainer kite many many times (as much as possible), and in light wind I practiced flying the bigger kites with someone standing behind me giving me advice. I asked tons of questions to experienced kiters, I read as much as possible, learned the lingo and educated myself. I even took time to practice in the winter on a spacious frozen lake where the only thing that got banged up was my elbows, knees and a bit of pride.

When I actually started kiteboarding on my own on water, I would head to a safe spot away from beach goers and other kiters. Fellow kiteboarders appreciated that.

So, while I think experienced kiters should help look out for the those learning, it's up to everyone learning to appreciate and recognize their limitations and the dangers of this growing sport.

Perhaps when one is learning, or even when buying their equipment, they should be told "you could die doing this!"


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 Post subject: Re: beginner accident ...who is at fault...
PostPosted: Tue Aug 20, 2013 12:31 am 
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The kiter is always responsible for his actions, regardless of how clueless he might be.
Sounds like he had some help in making bad choices however going right back to his instructor.


I agree with Rick on this one. Sorry Mr. Beginner, but ever hear about making an error on the "safe-side"? In this case it means that sometimes you eject to safety even if you probably didn't really have to?


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