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 Post subject: Re: Elitist segregation in kite surfing.
PostPosted: Sun Sep 01, 2013 10:30 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2009 10:00 pm
Posts: 152
Location: New Zealand
It all comes down to: "Don't be a dick".


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 Post subject: Re: Elitist segregation in kite surfing.
PostPosted: Sun Sep 01, 2013 11:02 pm 
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Posts: 2562
Location: The Naki
tr3v wrote:
It all comes down to: "Don't be a dick".

hehehe. quote of the day!


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 Post subject: Re: Elitist segregation in kite surfing.
PostPosted: Mon Sep 02, 2013 4:27 am 
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Posts: 389
except the one being the dick generally does not know he is one.

very few people wake up in the morning and say "today i am going to be a dick". Although it does come more naturally to some than others. So, it is up to you to let them know they are being "that guy". nicely at first and escalating until the message is heard. or let them run free and create havoc.

nobody wants to stop anybody's fun but if you can not play well with others you might need a timeout.

carry on, have fun and be safe


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 Post subject: Re: Elitist segregation in kite surfing.
PostPosted: Tue Sep 03, 2013 11:07 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2004 1:40 pm
Posts: 667
Location: L.A. & Ventura Counties, CA
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He, He, He, Hah, Hah, Hah. I can't help it. I can finally say, "I told you so."

YEARS AGO, in threads dealing with who should have the ROW, I PREDICTED that surfboard riders would try to REDUCE ACCESS by whining about TTers allegedly "getting in their way" because they SUPPOSEDLY had the ROW.

For the record, I again make the ADDITIONAL prediction that STRAPLESS riders will eventually follow the SAME path and attempt to REDUCE ACCESS by claiming that "their" locations should ONLY be used for strapless riding.

Regarding PUBLIC recreational resources, the obvious FACT is that NO KITER can claim any more right to use the resource than any other kiter. Regardless of what type of equipment is being used or even whether they are only BODYDRAGGING.

It would behoove those interested in the subject to realize that claims to priority are, in actuality, thinly disguised attempts to LIMIT ACCESS. This is the MAIN REASON why waveriders will go berserk at this post.

Anyone who honestly examines the pros and cons of who should have the ROW, will see that by far the most reasonable approach is for the outgoing rider to have the ROW, NOT someone on a wave.

After a few of my forum buddies post some of their typical, barely rational explanations alleging that they are "locked into" the wave, along with their even less coherent personal attacks, I'll take the time to repost the extensive justification for my opinion.

Richard M.
Malibu Kitesurfing - since 2002
(310) - 430 - KITE (5483)
http://www.MalibuKitesurfing.NET
kfRichard@MalibuKitesurfing.NET


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 Post subject: Re: Elitist segregation in kite surfing.
PostPosted: Tue Sep 03, 2013 11:35 pm 
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RichardM wrote:
Regarding PUBLIC recreational resources, the obvious FACT is that NO KITER can claim any more right to use the resource than any other kiter. Regardless of what type of equipment is being used or even whether they are only BODYDRAGGING.

It's funny, when I and others say that public recreation resources are public and nobody can claim priority, bunches of people start in on the "but we kiters have to give way to other beach users because wah wah wah"...

I'm with tr3v on this.


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 Post subject: Re: Elitist segregation in kite surfing.
PostPosted: Wed Sep 04, 2013 12:15 am 
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Location: The Naki
RichardM wrote:
Anyone who honestly examines the pros and cons of who should have the ROW, will see that by far the most reasonable approach is for the outgoing rider to have the ROW, NOT someone on a wave.

After a few of my forum buddies post some of their typical, barely rational explanations alleging that they are "locked into" the wave, along with their even less coherent personal attacks, I'll take the time to repost the extensive justification for my opinion.


I think the dude on the wave should get right of way. Certainly in big wave situations you sometimes have limited options and are committed to your line. The outgoing guy has more options he can more easily change direction or haul down wind out of the way. I certianly give priority to dudes on the wave and hope they do the same for me.


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 Post subject: Re: Elitist segregation in kite surfing.
PostPosted: Wed Sep 04, 2013 12:47 am 
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Joined: Wed May 23, 2012 2:27 pm
Posts: 79
I HATE THIS FORUM!
I think this is the demise of our cherished sport.
I've surfed since 1976. 8 years old. I got yelled at by a big 20 year Hawaiian dude when I was TEN! You think a 10 year old is gonna steal a wave from a 200 lbs Hawaiian? Why? He's a DICK.
Surfers are DICKS.
I've windsurfed since I was 22. Biggest relief I ever had. I finally got surf waves away from all the DICKS.
Started Kiting in 2000. Guess what? Still no DICKS!
We all helped each other and were cool to each other. Why? You guessed it my friend. YOU DIDN'T EXIST! You were groveling in the line up yelling at some little 10 year old kid.
Surfers are DICKS and I hate seeing them learning to kite. They're little testosterone rats.


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 Post subject: Re: Elitist segregation in kite surfing.
PostPosted: Wed Sep 04, 2013 1:15 am 
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Joined: Fri Sep 11, 2009 3:15 am
Posts: 1496
I would bet good money that anyone with an elitist attitude/ this way is better, is from the older age group pretending to be younger lol, when in fact most younger riders couldn't give a flying shit what anyone did. Well except for the trolls


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 Post subject: Re: Elitist segregation in kite surfing.
PostPosted: Wed Sep 04, 2013 1:38 am 
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Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2004 1:40 pm
Posts: 667
Location: L.A. & Ventura Counties, CA
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Kamikuza wrote:
RichardM wrote:
Regarding PUBLIC recreational resources, the obvious FACT is that NO KITER can claim any more right to use the resource than any other kiter. Regardless of what type of equipment is being used or even whether they are only BODYDRAGGING.

It's funny, when I and others say that public recreation resources are public and nobody can claim priority, bunches of people start in on the "but we kiters have to give way to other beach users because wah wah wah"...

I'm with tr3v on this.


Sorry Kamikuza. You’ll have to try a lot harder to try to turn my statements around. I very carefully stated “NO KITERS...” NOT “nobody”. Keep trying, you might eventually get me.

plummet wrote:
RichardM wrote:
Anyone who honestly examines the pros and cons of who should have the ROW, will see that by far the most reasonable approach is for the outgoing rider to have the ROW, NOT someone on a wave.

After a few of my forum buddies post some of their typical, barely rational explanations alleging that they are "locked into" the wave, along with their even less coherent personal attacks, I'll take the time to repost the extensive justification for my opinion.


I think the dude on the wave should get right of way. Certainly in big wave situations you sometimes have limited options and are committed to your line. The outgoing guy has more options he can more easily change direction or haul down wind out of the way. I certianly give priority to dudes on the wave and hope they do the same for me.


You are correct regarding big waves (and outside reef and point breaks). However, those situations do not occur reasonably close to shore and I suspect that it is relatively rare for kiters not riding waves to be at those spots. My post is concerned with locations where waveriders are riding waves relatively close to shore where there are other kiters doing other things (the type of situations which are common in southern CA).

However, kiters are rarely “committed to your line” for more than a short time (measured in seconds) where they COULD exit the wave IF they wanted to (unlike surfers who are much more dependent on the wave itself). Furthermore, a kiter catching a wave SHOULD be able to see other kiters who might end up in the way from far enough away to be able to arrange that there won’t be a problem. Either by determining when to exit the wave or by deciding to wait. It’s not as if they’ve sat there freezing for twenty minutes with the prospect of another 20 minute wait which may be common for many surfers.

Flyfish wrote:
I HATE THIS FORUM!
I think this is the demise of our cherished sport.
I've surfed since 1976. 8 years old. I got yelled at by a big 20 year Hawaiian dude when I was TEN! You think a 10 year old is gonna steal a wave from a 200 lbs Hawaiian? Why? He's a DICK.
Surfers are DICKS.
I've windsurfed since I was 22. Biggest relief I ever had. I finally got surf waves away from all the DICKS.
Started Kiting in 2000. Guess what? Still no DICKS!
We all helped each other and were cool to each other. Why? You guessed it my friend. YOU DIDN'T EXIST! You were groveling in the line up yelling at some little 10 year old kid.
Surfers are DICKS and I hate seeing them learning to kite. They're little testosterone rats.


There seems to be a tremendous amount of TRUTH to what you say. Unfortunately, it seems like many waveriders try to import the utterly ridiculous pecking order mentality from surfing into kiting. Specifically, I’m referring to the 100% WRONG concept that the most experienced surfer/kiter should have PRIORITY and that less experienced or less proficient people should yield the ROW and otherwise make sure not to interfere with the more proficient. Although, children MIGHT be excused from succumbing to this retarded philosophy, that any ADULT could promote it simply boggles the mind.

Anyone who cannot grasp that it is the most experienced/proficient that should give preference to the less experienced/proficient (if ANY preference should be given), must be completely blinded by pure self-interest.

Richard M.
Malibu Kitesurfing - since 2002
(310) - 430 - KITE (5483)
http://www.MalibuKitesurfing.NET
kfRichard@MalibuKitesurfing.NET


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 Post subject: Re: Elitist segregation in kite surfing.
PostPosted: Wed Sep 04, 2013 3:17 am 
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Joined: Sat Jun 30, 2012 11:25 am
Posts: 2299
I HATE THIS FORUM!
I think this is the demise of our cherished sport.
I've surfed since 1976. 8 years old. I got yelled at by a big 20 year Hawaiian dude when I was TEN! You think a 10 year old is gonna steal a wave from a 200 lbs Hawaiian? Why? He's a DICK.
Surfers are DICKS.
I've windsurfed since I was 22. Biggest relief I ever had. I finally got surf waves away from all the DICKS.
Started Kiting in 2000. Guess what? Still no DICKS!
We all helped each other and were cool to each other. Why? You guessed it my friend. YOU DIDN'T EXIST! You were groveling in the line up yelling at some little 10 year old kid.
Surfers are DICKS and I hate seeing them learning to kite. They're little testosterone rats




While I don't agree with his forum dislike (as discussions like this can hopefully wake up some of these elitist wankers), I completly relate to what this dude has said.

DO NOT bring your surfing mentality into this sport. I also surfed for many years and watched the so called Dicks become greater Dicks to the point where I cannot bring myself to even get in the water anymore as I know some jerk is going to give me a mouthful and I'm going to have to stop myself from doing what I shouldn't do.

This so called ownership of a wave, is such modern invidualised bullshit. Love those pictures of mutiple malibus cruising along the same wave. Unless it is a dangerous point break where someone on your wave could cause you serious injury (and we have some spots like this) who cares if someone is on YOUR wave. You are not that good, you are not kelly slater and will never be. You are not in some competition. Does it really matter is someone is riding on the same wave...really does it?

Do Not bring your dickness into this sport becuase where I kite, I won't let you. I encourage others to do the same. Keep on smile on your dial, have fun and if some dickhead try hard on a strapless SB is being a Dick, just get in his way and smile, do your own thing....But if everyone is respecting everyones right to be in the 'waves', then all is good and there is no need.

Luckily at our spots we have TT's and SB's riding side by side with little angst and respect for each other. We all follow a rotation if the waves are good. Occasionally someone stuffs up but all is well. There was one occasion though some guy (wasn't a local) starting shouting abuse at the all the riders...well my mate and I spent the next half hour jumping over his head (smiling of course) and my SB mates purposeably dropped in...he went in and the rotation resumed...all were happy.

Infact sometimes we rides the same waves together...its a hoot. Fly and following someone down the line, crossing over, having a laugh, having FUN!

That's what it is all about!


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