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 Post subject: Re: Review North Dice 7m
PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2013 6:38 pm 
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Location: San Francisco Bay Area
Westozzy wrote:
recoprianto wrote:
So if you are a really good freestyler but want a bit more comfort, and to maybe tone back a little to allow for the less slack lines but want a bullshit wave kite that does boost really well (just like the Vegas but far more float) then the dice is ya machine.

Can you clarify this statement? The bullshit wave kite part... I fly Vegas currently, but want a kite that feels like the Vegas but drifts. I am willing to give up some slack for drift. How are the loops on the dice compared to vegas?

Thanks


Oops I forget it is an international forum. Mark is right. A bullshit wave kite means an excellent kick ass wave kite. Yeh no comparison there. What north did I think is firstly they used the ideas gained from the Neo design to improve the 2012 Vegas which was the worst year for this kite..I know I had one! The Vegas has also been a good wave kite for those who wanted to fly and follow, with a little bot of drift but nothing remarkable. But the Vegas has power, boosts two things lacking in the Neo.

So they took the Neo platform (hence the excellent drift) and brought in some Vegas DNA in a three strut format. So yes if you are willing to sacrifice some slack for drift then you have the right kite.

But if you are a serious hard core freestyler then it has to be the Vegas.

Most the crew I know and kite with are either full blown SB riders or TT mutant freeriders. There is a spattering of hardcore freestylers but that is a very specific discipline and one that I have total respect for. Get it right or get hurt and generally the latter while you learn and when pushing the boundary.

But for freeride (a bit of everything) the dice to me will eat up a huge segment of this market and will appeal to many many riders. We have been looking for a wave kite that boosts for a loooong time. And it does and it starts boosting in its medium wind range not near its top, which is always a stupid claim because any kite will boost near its top. When I say boost I mean immediate and controlled power feedback that allows you to easily dial in your edge and kite movement for pop and lift then glide potential through the air, with controlled soft landings even without a downloop, although this is always recommended if going really big. Every kite jumps, but it is HOW It jumps that is key.

Plus it unhooks so well. Loop wise, not as pivotal not as quick. Way more powered. But in the setting closer to the wing tip these loops get closer to the Vegas, also drift better here, but you lose a bit of boost ability. But I was looping it down the line no probs, and you can kill the power so well you just need to control the loop then use the power. The REO is easier to loop down the line I must admit. But yeh dice kills it getting back upwind and gives you much more static grunt as well as fly and follow potential.

What is apparent though is how smooth the power delivery is. It comes on in a linear fashion, no stupid power spikes, no stupid on/off crap I hate in kites. And stability in the air is something to behold.


Great reply. Answered my questions. I think these will be my 2014 kites. Quiver of Dice with an 8m Vegas thrown in for the perfect flatwater wind days.


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 Post subject: Re: Review North Dice 7m
PostPosted: Thu Mar 12, 2015 6:41 am 
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Hey this is at Westozzy or anyone out there for that matter that has any suggestions. I requivered recently and got a 10 and 12 dice to top off my 5m and 8m rebels(storm/frontal wind kiting) and initially fell in love with them. Now, i know they aren't as powerful as the reb per size, but I'm really struggling to get them going well, unless its well into their wind range. I understand it is a lot about technique and I've read "you just have to know how to get the power out of them...", but for the life of me(and I've looked), nobody has explained how to get this power out of them. Ive found the upstroke is pretty critical for sure, but is there anything else I'm missing? They are the 2014 ones, got em for a clearance pricing and were suggested as a bit better for surf/drifting.
Furthermore, dose anyone find that they just don't go upwind very well, or is just the function of a "C" shaped/influenced kite? Im 200 plus 5mm wetsuit and gear so prob 210'ish.
That is all, thats mate's lol!


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 Post subject: Re: Review North Dice 7m
PostPosted: Thu Mar 12, 2015 8:42 am 
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Dice goes upwind very well.
My experience with Dice is that it works very well on apparent wind. To get going in marginal wind you have to learn to work the kite. It's complicated and requires some experience. You should know how to pump your board to increase water flow and plane. Use wave/chop to gain board speed and apparent wind. Have correct stance to deweight the board. Depower the kite especially on upstroke to gain wind speed on canopy. In short practice-practice!


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 Post subject: Re: Review North Dice 7m
PostPosted: Thu Mar 12, 2015 8:49 am 
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There is no doubt the 2014 dice had less obvious power per square metre than say a rebel. This gap has been closed somewhat (not entirely as it is function of as you say the C in the profile) to the rebel, in 2015. But what was lost a little was its wave riding drift ability, as it flies more forward now and is bridalled more now to more powerful freeride kite. The 2014 was a kick ass wave kite, the 2015 is just really good. Not a neo/reo/ Cabo etc really good but for a lot of crew it still does just fine. Basically it's not a plug and play kite as they would like you to believe. It won't pull at the edge of the window as much as say a rebel, and most defiantly not as much as my dynos.

You gotta come off your edge a bit, drop the kite (work it) but don't let it fly all the way to the edge of 'its' window, slightly pull it back then drop it again..keep getting it to hunt the edge but never give it the edge...then use the edge of your board to lever with or against the pull to get up the board speed...eventually you can lock it off but it needs some wind over it for a real long tack.

If ya feel it losing its power, again come off your edge and give it a more aggressive dive...but again don't let it fly all the way to the edge of the window thinking it's just gonna sit there are pull for ya. Of course the more wind you have the more subtle this movement is. See how this goes for ya.


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 Post subject: Re: Review North Dice 7m
PostPosted: Thu Mar 12, 2015 8:57 am 
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Or if this doesn't seem to work for you, get yourself a cheap Low Y bar. It opens up the canopy not unlike the 2015 (which also has a slightly lower Y bar wise as well). This will give you more obvious power, although you will lose some top end stability and less throw length before she stalls out on ya. I eventually ride all my dices on a low Y bar for this reason but I'm a power junkie, still holding onto the 13M dyno when others are on 9/10s at only 74kg.


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 Post subject: Re: Review North Dice 7m
PostPosted: Thu Mar 12, 2015 2:26 pm 
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I have the 2014 8 and 10m Dice. I have had some nirvana sessions and some struggled sessions. The struggled sessions were when the wind lulled below the meat for the particular kite. Let's say I'm loving life at 20mph on the 10m… Kite is pulling, feeling transparent, bar pressure is so comfortably light, wave riding is zen and an occasional jump is quick and exciting, then the wind drops to 15 mph - CRAP! Now I have to work the kite, sine it, use the upstroke, come off the fin or edge of my board and go downwind a bit. Not a big deal if the wind surges back to 20mph. SO the struggle is when the wind lingers on the low end. Then the Dice is not friendly.

Other kites that are more "grunty" will be the opposite. WInd comes down you can use the grunt to keep going but wind surges past the "meat" and then your riding with the kite high in the sky and getting pulled aggressively. There is a trade off with the Dice. Low end for nirvana meat and higher wind. And a super light transparent feel.

I use to agree with Westozzy about the Dice having low end but just needing to "know how to work it". I was faked (by myself) into believing it had low end on some of those Nirvana sessions where the wind rarely got into that lower zone. Then I started having sessions where the lulls were prolonged. The Dice didn't deliver. Also after sessions on friend's kites that were gruntier, like Switchblades and Rallys, I realized that the Dice (from 2014) is just not grunty and lacks low end. To me it just does not have low end and it prefers the meat and higher end of it's wind range.

One thing I did in late October and through November was lose 12 solid pounds of weight. By the last Fall sessions I was having better sessions on the Dice because my kite was pulling a lot less. Was 165 lbs. and now 152 lbs… So this Spring I'm psyched to be on the Dice! The feel is so awesome. Another thing I do in those lully sessions is have my big surfboard on hand. It's 5'8" x almost 22" wide.


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 Post subject: Re: Review North Dice 7m
PostPosted: Fri Mar 13, 2015 6:14 am 
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Thanx boys, some top notch pointers there. Westozzy, i sent you a pm a while back about the bar and did pick up a 2014 quad bar. Is the quad bar what you would consider a low y? It is way lower that the 5 line trust so i figured it was/is. I will say though, that 2 line depower is dodgy (when overpowered), i had an...interesting landing a while back when i had to come in radically overpowered. Kite wouldn't roll over and i couldn't run at the kite fast enough to engage it.
I guess with my rebels i can burry the edge of my board, lock off the kite and drive upwind, seems that isn't as much the case w the dice.


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 Post subject: Re: Review North Dice 7m
PostPosted: Fri Mar 13, 2015 8:16 am 
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Well Yeh grunt monsters like say the rally (which really does have superb low end) will Definetly out class the dice, so I wasn't comparing the dice to them for sure. No doubt it needs some wind over its wing, but a kite with .' Bad low end' it's not.

Now that I think about it I know for sure the Y not the fifth has dropped a metre, not sure about the quad actually. Will check next time the boys are out as they have mixture of 2015 and 2014 kites and bars now.


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 Post subject: Re: Review North Dice 7m
PostPosted: Fri Mar 13, 2015 8:56 am 
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I think all kite companies are too conservative about proper windranges. Seems like only someone below 70 kgs riding a surfboard would be able to match those. I don't think it is possible for a kite to have both good drift and no low end at the same time. It just means you need a bigger kite for the wind. my 2c.


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 Post subject: Re: Review North Dice 7m
PostPosted: Fri Mar 13, 2015 12:33 pm 
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I'm not sure what "quicky" meant…

"I think all kite companies are too conservative about proper windranges. Seems like only someone below 70 kgs riding a surfboard would be able to match those. I don't think it is possible for a kite to have both good drift and no low end at the same time. It just means you need a bigger kite for the wind. my 2c".

What did you mean by "no low end"? DId you mean to say:

"I don't think it is possible for a kite to have both good drift and good low end at the same time".

Anyhow there are plenty of wave kites out there that have grunty characteristics and drift. Whereas you might have to size up the Dice in a particular wind you may be able to stay on the same size Rally.

The Dice from 2014 has the characteristics for freestyle and waves. That C shape. Not the big center pockets of many wave kites.

So I wouldn't say it has bad low end just "little" low end. It's a finesse kite. Fast, light, transparent with a narrower wind range than other wave kites...


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