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 Post subject: Re: Front line swivel mod w/ single front line safety,Workin
PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2013 8:23 pm 
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I tend to agree - if the frontline B is longer than A but has a figure 8 stopper knot just below the swivel, it shouldn't snag any more than an attached safety line with two joined eyes.
The blade uni bar also does not have a bungee for safety and could have used the above system, but joins a short safety to frontline line B so it is easier to replace lines later on.
The Q line becomes a problem if fronline B has same length as line A because then the line end can snag in swivel and at the bar.


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 Post subject: Re: Front line swivel mod w/ single front line safety,Workin
PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2013 8:41 pm 
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flybykite wrote:
I'm building a bar. I don't have a bungee. In using one length of q line as the flag line. the stopper ball I'll make from nylon will be at the bottom of the swivel. A knot on the bar side will power the ball into the swivel, the rest of the line will feed through a ring on the side of the QR and have another ring attached to clip into. I'm unable to post my diagram again from page 1 from my phone. Please have a look at it and let me know if you see a design flaw.
I'm off to the kite spot now and no reception so it might be awhile before I reply.



sorry I totally forgot you were building your own bar (thread hijack etc). I meant for existing bars q-powerline is not a good choice. It's certainly a lot easier to make single line flag work with spliced line.

for your bar you are going to be able to tweak it until it works. having made my own bars, I know that from the design to the existing bar there are always changes. Personally I have given up on trying to make q-powerline work for my bars tho because even if everything is perfect below the V, I just dont like how the figure 8 knot can catch on the hole in the bar when it feeds through.

I think from looking back at the diagram that you are feeding the safety outside the bar? This works great with q-powerline now it has nothing to catch on. Kinda weird tho the flag out line is not inside the bar hole.


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 Post subject: Re: Front line swivel mod w/ single front line safety,Workin
PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2013 12:43 am 
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... so if you have to have long bridles for the mini-5th - why not just stick with the long bridles and double front? Cos I still don't believe single front is safer :D

Why is reride poor on single front line?


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 Post subject: Re: Front line swivel mod w/ single front line safety,Workin
PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2013 1:38 am 
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Kamikuza wrote:
Why is reride poor on single front line?


Reride is poor on single line flag because the bar shoots all the way to the kite and for most riders that's game, they have to swim in. Even if you mod the kite flag out line it still needs 10 full meters to completely depower the kite (actually 1 full wingtip span). On a mini-5th the bar might shoot up a meter or two and then stop so reride is a lot easier.


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 Post subject: Re: Front line swivel mod w/ single front line safety,Workin
PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2013 3:20 am 
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edt wrote:
Kamikuza wrote:
Why is reride poor on single front line?


Reride is poor on single line flag because the bar shoots all the way to the kite and for most riders that's game, they have to swim in. Even if you mod the kite flag out line it still needs 10 full meters to completely depower the kite (actually 1 full wingtip span). On a mini-5th the bar might shoot up a meter or two and then stop so reride is a lot easier.

That's what I thought . . . which is why everyone went to dual fronts, no?


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 Post subject: Re: Front line swivel mod w/ single front line safety,Workin
PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2013 3:39 am 
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Kamikuza wrote:
That's what I thought . . . which is why everyone went to dual fronts, no?


there was a lot of experimentation in the beginning. I had a recon equipped cabrinha kite recently until I wrecked it in a tree, the way u were supposed to flag out is the steering lines would take all the tension and this line with a stopper at the rear of the kite would move out of some battens and sort of fly the kite backwards it was a leashless system -- cabrinha has always been fond of leashless systems. I think it killed a few people. I didnt use the factory recon safety system to QR this kite not safe I would leash to an oh shit. What would happen is one side would work, and maybe there was some seaweed or something on the other side so the other side wouldn't work, and you would get a death loop. The safest kites at the time were 5 line kites, you could flag out on the 5th line. some people would leash to an oh-shit handle if you didn't have a 5th line, hard to reride since a c kite would twirl until it was a mess but you could swim in and not lose the kite. I would have to guess that the mini-5th line idea came from the idea of a 5 line safety but only using 4 lines. The single center flag system came from the idea of leashing to the oh shit handle but being able to send the line through the center of the bar.

notice how when north who until a few years ago was only 5 line kites went with a 4 line model, they decided on the mini-5th line -- I have to think there is something there about them trying to imitate a 5 line kite on 4 lines. So while everyone else is going to front line safety because of design constraints north went from a true 5 line to a mini-5th line. North has always been a somewhat slow adopter. I suspect north will also come out with a front line flagging system in a year or two, it's just too much of a market place disadvantage to have these design constraints on your kites.


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 Post subject: Re: Front line swivel mod w/ single front line safety,Workin
PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2013 8:38 am 
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i dont see the re ride being sacrificed on a front line flag, i teach on the LF envy and we are always releasing as part of the class and having students fix them selves up with little trouble.

I also fly the the blade trigger quite a lot, it was 35+ knots in my last session. i over flew a kite loop and saw the kite dropping and about to power up with a huge amount of slack in the lines so i released to stop me from being rag dolled.......
it was simple for me to pull myself back to the bar re connect and get back and riding even with the bar half way up the lines!


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 Post subject: Re: Front line swivel mod w/ single front line safety,Workin
PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2013 5:33 pm 
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edt wrote:
flybykite wrote:
I'm building a bar. I don't have a bungee. In using one length of q line as the flag line. the stopper ball I'll make from nylon will be at the bottom of the swivel. A knot on the bar side will power the ball into the swivel, the rest of the line will feed through a ring on the side of the QR and have another ring attached to clip into. I'm unable to post my diagram again from page 1 from my phone. Please have a look at it and let me know if you see a design flaw.
I'm off to the kite spot now and no reception so it might be awhile before I reply.



Kinda weird tho the flag out line is not inside the bar hole.

The flag line does go through the bar and then through my home made ring instead of through the center of the QR.
It should work fine. I'll post it when it's finished. Still waiting on the lines to arrive.
Thanks again


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 Post subject: Re: Front line swivel mod w/ single front line safety,Workin
PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2013 5:41 pm 
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flybykite wrote:
It should work fine. I'll post it when it's finished. Still waiting on the lines to arrive.
Thanks again



Well if it does catch you can always grab 10 meter of 12 strand dyneema, splice it and that that one line will have 10 meters of regular kite line on it <--- this is how I would do it if I had a mess of q-powerline. You need to learn how to splice anyway if you are making your own bars, because you can splice your own leaders, bridle replacements, chicken lines etc. I really hate any kind of knots passing through the bar hole, so when I make a splice for my elastic flag out section I don't even use a zacher knot, I do a simple splice and sew it to lock it.

When I throw my QR I don't want it to work 95 times out of 100 I want it to work 100 out of 100. Saves a lot of grief because you don't have to sew back up a wrecked kite because you had to release it when the QR failed that one time. If there is a knot and it passes thru the bar hole, if you throw the QR a ton like I do, it will eventually catch on the bar might not be a high percentage but I had to learn this the hard way.


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 Post subject: Re: Front line swivel mod w/ single front line safety,Workin
PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2013 8:13 pm 
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EDT,

Any chance of a photo of you set up?

Thanks!


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