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 Post subject: Re: Cloud 17 Full Review vs. Speed 3 21meter
PostPosted: Sat Sep 14, 2013 9:36 pm 
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davesails7 wrote:

Yeah, I think there may be a difference of skill or weight going on there. The Cloud has some good qualities, but it doesn't beat the Dyno in going upwind (everything else being equal).

I've ridden Cloud 17 back to back with my 14m Rebel and 18m Dyno. 165 lbs riding Slingshot SP 5'4" x 21.5" in about 10 knots. I'd say the Cloud had slightly more power than the 14m Rebel, but the Rebel sits further forward in the window, so ability to stay upwind was about the same.

I'd be interested to see what the projected area for the cloud. Riding side by side with me on the Rebel my buddy on the Cloud, the Cloud's projected area didn't seem much more than the 14m Rebel (which is much higher aspect ratio and flatter).


As for skill and weight, i am not sure about skill as I don't ride at that spot or with those people. First time. As for weight, we were about the same though he may have been a little lighter than me.

As for the Rebel 14 being close in power with better upwind? Tell that to the guy here that has 2013 10 and 14 Rebel and bought the cloud 17 because he loved it so much. If it had close to the same low end with better upwind, everyone would be riding Rebel 14s in 10 knots which they aren't. That's why they buy the Dyno.

People do tell me that I am a very efficient rider. I could have rode the 14m Rebel if I had my Sector 66.


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 Post subject: Re: Cloud 17 Full Review vs. Speed 3 21meter
PostPosted: Sat Sep 14, 2013 10:01 pm 
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noel wrote:
As for the Rebel 14 being close in power with better upwind?


Rebel wasn't better, they were about the same as far as staying upwind that day for me. I think the Rebel definitely sits further forward in the window, but the Cloud had more pull. I tried both back to back and was just barely staying upwind on both.

I'd bet the cloud would stay up much better in lulls as well since it is much lighter. Rebel is hard to keep in the sky in anything less than 9 knots.

As I said though, this is probably because it was my first 15 minutes of riding the cloud, and I think I was easing the bar too much.

Who knows, it could have been 1 knot less wind when I was riding the cloud.

Will let you know when I try again.


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 Post subject: Re: Cloud 17 Full Review vs. Speed 3 21meter
PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2013 7:04 pm 
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*edited, corrected just some typos and completed sentences, I was hurry yesterday*

I had an opportunity to test Cloud 17 today for 20 minutes. It was setup with Naish bar around 50cm wide. I don't know about bar pressure setting if there is anything to select. Back lines seemed to go to the very tip.

The wind was very light, I used Flydoor XL (170x50) twin tip on my own session. For a wind strength reference, I could downwind-plane Speed4 10DLX after many kiteloops to get board planing as I weight 110kg. I estimate wind to be about 4 to 6m/s (8-12 knots). Speed3 15dlx which is my normal kite I had no problem with planing, jumping or going upwind on this session with above board.

Some comment about feeling of the kite. I felt bar pressure was very light. Like mentioned I did not know the setting if there are multiple setup points. Bar pressure felt lighter than Speed3. Airfoil felt totally new, I've never experienced such a feeling. I own Edge, I've flown Rebels, Evos, Rhinos, Fuse, Dyno, Best TS, Core XR2 LW along with many foils like Speed 3s and 4, Psychos, Pulses, X-19, Samurai, Frenzy, HQ Apex2 etc. Bar too forward and the kite fabric fluttered. It flew ok with bar too forward position, no problem there. But I liked to keep some pressure on the back lines. But the feeling of the kite was very light and when kite turned I could not feel much what the kite did. Again if there are multiple bar pressure settings and it was setup light I'd definitely turn pressure harder. The kite turned quite tight on these winds what I had.

Some words about power levels. I felt flying the kite and juicing power out while trying to plane was hard because of the feeling and little power it gave me on dive. But I was able to plane with XL door. With Speed3 15DLX I did not have juice problems. I would definitely say the Speed3 15DLX is more powerful kite of these two. Much better bar feeling so it is much easier to know what kite is doing and steer it for power as power is felt on the hook, again with the Cloud bar pressure setting disclaimer. With Cloud I could hardly plane. I could just hold the ground or perhaps 2 degrees to upwind. Speed3 15DLX I needed to sine very mildly to get the board speed. With Cloud all the time sineing. Probably after a lot of experience with kite feel I could have done better but...

I did not have fun. I'll stick with Speeds.

Test "set-up"
Attachment:
GOPR0050.MP4_snapshot_00.05_[2013.09.15_22.07.14].jpg
GOPR0050.MP4_snapshot_00.05_[2013.09.15_22.07.14].jpg [ 255.01 KIB | Viewed 428 times ]


Doing maths, sining
Attachment:
GOPR0051.MP4_snapshot_00.11_[2013.09.15_21.01.54].jpg
GOPR0051.MP4_snapshot_00.11_[2013.09.15_21.01.54].jpg [ 339.62 KIB | Viewed 467 times ]


Last edited by joriws on Mon Sep 16, 2013 6:24 am, edited 3 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Cloud 17 Full Review vs. Speed 3 21meter
PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2013 8:48 pm 
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Location: Miami @ 6" Flat Butter!
:thumb:


Last edited by DrLightWind on Sat Sep 21, 2013 3:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Cloud 17 Full Review vs. Speed 3 21meter
PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2013 9:04 pm 
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DrLightWind wrote:
joriws wrote:
I did not have fun. I'll stick with Speeds.
I'm second to that :thumb:
I know what I know and people should give an honest unbiased testing results,
about the bar pressure when powered up VS Speed3, range and boosting performance. :alarm:
Not because they had to bite the bullet :!: :nono:

DrLW


This 110KG guy who has experience kiting says the the SP3 15 has more power than Cloud 17
Just imagine how much more powerful a SP3 21 is in comparison
Just common sense
You got a 21 with 17.5+ projected area versus (and i will be generous) 12.0 projected
No brainer.....................not even close
A Cloud 17 could not even keep up with a XR3 LW 19m2 ( a fun fast turning+looping LW kite)
Just my 2-4 nuts sense :wink:
BTW Hello Doc :thumb:


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 Post subject: Re: Cloud 17 Full Review vs. Speed 3 21meter
PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2013 10:54 pm 
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Good post, we have these same kite comparisons going on here..
:yumyum:


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 Post subject: Re: Cloud 17 Full Review vs. Speed 3 21meter
PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2013 10:54 pm 
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DrLightWind wrote:
joriws wrote:
I did not have fun. I'll stick with Speeds.
I'm second to that :thumb:
I know what I know and people should give an honest unbiased testing results,
about the bar pressure when powered up VS Speed3, range and boosting performance. :alarm:
Not because they had to bite the bullet :!: :nono:

DrLW


I think it is fair enough to make ones own choices, but I am also a little weary about going with what someone who has ridden a kite for 20 minutes..but have a lot of experience on another kite.

It is all valuable information, but I think kites that are more similar is easier to give an evaluation after only a short run.


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 Post subject: Re: Cloud 17 Full Review vs. Speed 3 21meter
PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2013 11:31 pm 
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OK but the title of thread is that the puffy Cloud 17 goes head to head with a pillowy SP3 21
I believe the dude that rode for only 20 minutes and could not even match a pillowy SP3 15
I believe that the review would be more fair and even versus a pillowy SP3 12 Deluxe

Strutless versus LE-less-strutless

:bye:


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 Post subject: Re: Cloud 17 Full Review vs. Speed 3 21meter
PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2013 11:45 pm 
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tautologies wrote:
I think it is fair enough to make ones own choices, but I am also a little weary about going with what someone who has ridden a kite for 20 minutes..but have a lot of experience on another kite.

It is all valuable information, but I think kites that are more similar is easier to give an evaluation after only a short run.


That is true, especially since this is such a different kite. All good information.

I think the first reviewer was fair. He said the Speed went a few MPH earlier than the Cloud. Depends on what you are looking for. If you really looking to get out in the lightest wind, a few MPH is EVERYTHING! If you are just looking to have some fun on 10 knot days, and need a fast kite for waves, the Cloud is a good option. I would take it over the Dyno or Speed in the surf :thumb:


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 Post subject: Re: Cloud 17 Full Review vs. Speed 3 21meter
PostPosted: Mon Sep 16, 2013 12:39 am 
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Location: The Naki
Interesting discussion.

I would expect the cloud to be less powerfull then sp3 15m unless it is flatter. Which i doubt it is.

I rate my 15m speed similar to ozone zephur 17m in power. Maybe just a touch better than the zep in flat/mild water conditions. But worse in waves due to its slowness.

Has anyone compared it to a zephur?

I also agree with everyone. A light weight fast turning lie will be superior in the waves compared to a foil. If you can stay upwind that is.


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