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So... whose watching the america's cup races?

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nicor
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Re: So... whose watching the america's cup races?

Postby nicor » Mon Sep 23, 2013 4:57 am

edt wrote:
nicor wrote:Watched a few races, the boats are super cool, but admittedly I miss the tactics and crew work that comes with the mono hulls. I don't like the location too, It's a drag race to one side of the course. Bring back the 12s I say..

good job NZ


Most sailboat owners hate the catamarans, they think there is no grace, no tactics

Everyone else in the world looks at these ac72's and thinks "Wow! Sailboats are fun. I didn't think I would ever watch a sailboat race, but I'll watch these, what are they called, ac somethings?"

Which is why the sailboat owners are gonna lose. This is the best america's cup of all time, there is no question, most popular most watched, best for the sponsors best for the non-sailing audience, best for people on shore to watch -- being able to watch from shore not a priority in the sailing community.

Traditional sailboat owners still have the Olympics to watch with the finn and the 49er laser, 470 and the rs:x windsurfer.

I do not understand ordinary sailors, that's for sure. I love these new boats, sure I love the 49ers those are beautiful too and the 12 meter boats are wonderful to watch, but I just don't understand why they are all about watching the horse and carriage when the race car just got invented.

I understand the kiwis will eventually win, oracle is in too deep a hole to climb out. But I just want to watch one more day of racing, go oracle you can do it!


I think your comment is quite unfair to sailors. It's true I've been brought up on sailboats and raced mono hulls competitively until my mid 20s, but I raced and sailed all sort of boats including Tornados. A matter of fact I can't think of any of my sailing friends who doesn't think cats are the bomb. Its not us again them...

The way I see sailing for the most part is more like chess match, with lots of tactics and manoeuvres to gain positioning. The super fast cats lose this and its because of the speed and the speed they lose during maneuvers: they're so fast that when you have to throw in just one extra tack or jibe, your competitor is moving so fast and you lose so much momentum, you basically lose the race. On a monohull, you can keep the momentum from tack to tack and benefit from the shifting wind directions. An analogy (over simplified): catamarans is like a drag race, monohulls is like f1 race.

But apart from the incredible speed i do find it a bit of a yawn fest. No tacking or jibing duals, no close maneuvers, crews can't trash talk each other anymore. These cats build so much apparent wind their sails are fully trimmed all the time. Jibes are simple too, just pull the sail over to the other side, no pole work. Never changes sails on the fly...I can go on.

I love these big cats, but I just don't think match racing is a good format for them, but hey that's just my opinion. Let's see which direction NZ would like to take it in the next AC.

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edt
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Re: So... whose watching the america's cup races?

Postby edt » Mon Sep 23, 2013 3:45 pm

nicor wrote:

But apart from the incredible speed i do find it a bit of a yawn fest. No tacking or jibing duals, no close maneuvers, crews can't trash talk each other anymore. These cats build so much apparent wind their sails are fully trimmed all the time. Jibes are simple too, just pull the sail over to the other side, no pole work. Never changes sails on the fly...I can go on.


tks nicro I think you explained pretty well why sailors like monohulls better. A casual fan like myself no question, I love these super fast cats because . . . they're faster! :-)

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Re: So... whose watching the america's cup races?

Postby Bille » Tue Sep 24, 2013 1:30 am

# 16
Apparently i was Wrong when i agreed that the Kiwis were better in
the light air. Today was only 10 to 12Kt , & we Won Again !!!!

Personally, i'm NOT proud that we cheated, and in some respects i
kinda hope the Kiwis win because there more of a gentlemen that abide
by the rules .
BUT
If the Kiwis win , we'll probably be going back to mono-hulls and match
racing . If We win then the AC72's will just get Better, WAY Better,
and Faster. It would be a mistake to go Backwards and ignore all the
technological changes to the better . Everyone learned a LOT about
the limits of our current technology and just how far it can be pushed by
a motivated team of engineers !!!

I say, lets place like 7 of those big Cats on the same closed course, and
let the MEN come out alive !!!

We got a LONG way to go before us kite boarders can stay with an AC72
in there best wind-range ; anyone that argues against that , is simply in :
"Denial" (.)

Bille

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edt
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Re: So... whose watching the america's cup races?

Postby edt » Tue Sep 24, 2013 1:42 am

kiwis are still better in light air, spithill destroyed dean barker in the start, actually oracle has pretty much won every start, but the kiwis were better at tacking and jibing, just better with the ac72 and even in his race, the kiwis were making ground on the upwind leg. oracle is still better in better wind and on the foils. I think the kiwis just get beat on the start by too much.

But if you saw the race that got called off, it was the worst blowout of the entire series, if they hadn't gone past the 40 minute limit the kiwis would have the cup now.

Oracle has done so much improving their tacking, it was a bit sloppy before, but in lighter wind, the kiwis I think hold the edge. Before, their lightwind edge was so much they could lose the start and make it all up on that first upwind leg, but now . . . .

If the kiwis want this cup they will have to step up their game that's all there is to it. They haven't been making as many changes to their boat and tactics as oracle has who have been been able to take risks that desperation allows.

If the kiwis want it they will have to get desperate too, take some risks. This cup won't fall into their hands, we know that now.

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Re: So... whose watching the america's cup races?

Postby toyletbowl » Tue Sep 24, 2013 5:15 am

It seems to be the Oracle crew is adapting, adjusting and learning a bit better than the Kiwis at the moment. It's sure making for incredible drama if they win one more to get within one race to tie and one more to win. Stronger winds tomorrow and the US crew just looks more relaxed. They'll probably get crushed on Tuesday, but no matter who wins, it will be well deserved.

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Re: So... whose watching the america's cup races?

Postby Wiski23 » Tue Sep 24, 2013 10:04 am

NZ stuffed up. We won the start but had no pace. TNZ went with the code zero where as oracle didn't. This causing massive wind drag, about 80kg they weigh I'm told. When you're talking minute preportions with these boats 80kg is really bad.
I don't understand why TNZ didn't just match race Oracle since they had the favored port side. Match racing = same boat set up.
I think TNZ will win the next race.

Wiski

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Re: So... whose watching the america's cup races?

Postby Bille » Tue Sep 24, 2013 10:03 pm

Race # 17

Course: 5 Legs/10.11 nautical miles
Elapsed Time: OTUSA – 24:04, ETNZ – 24:31
Delta: OTUSA +:27
Total distance sailed: OTUSA – 11.8 NM, ETNZ – 11.6 NM
Average Speed: OTUSA – 29.62 knots (34 mph), ETNZ – 28.63 knots (33 mph)
Top Speed: OTUSA – 44.02 knots (51 mph), ETNZ – 46.33 knots (53 mph)
Windspeed: Average – 16.8 knots, Peak – 20.0 knots
Number of Tacks/Jibes: OTUSA – 8/6, ETNZ – 7/5

OH Yea --- ORACLE Team , WINS AGAIN !!! :D

from :
http://www.americascup.com/en/news/3/ne ... of-history

Bille

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Re: So... whose watching the america's cup races?

Postby stefaans » Tue Sep 24, 2013 10:35 pm

I would NEVER NEVER have thought we could do to the Kiwi's what we just did in race 18.
Just amazing speed from Oracle, you can't compete against that.

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Bille
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Re: So... whose watching the america's cup races?

Postby Bille » Tue Sep 24, 2013 11:04 pm

Were EVEN now Guys ...

Even though New Zealand actually posted the Highest speed
in race 18 , at 47.57Kts, (55mph) ; the Oracle Team still made it
to the finish FIRST !!! :o :D

SERIOUSLY ??---- 55mph on a fricken Sailboat ? !!!!!

Race 18 Performance Data

Course: 5 Legs/10.11 nautical miles
Elapsed Time: OTUSA – 22:01, ETNZ – 22:55
Delta: OTUSA +:54
Total distance sailed: OTUSA – 11.7 NM, ETNZ – 11.9 NM
Average Speed: OTUSA – 31.92 knots (37 mph), ETNZ – 31.23 knots (36 mph)
Top Speed: OTUSA – 45.79 knots (53 mph), ETNZ – 47.57 knots (55 mph)
Windspeed: Average – 19.3 knots, Peak – 21.8 knots
Number of Tacks/Jibes: OTUSA – 7/7, ETNZ – 10/6


From :
http://www.americascup.com/en/news/3/ne ... of-history

Bille

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Re: So... whose watching the america's cup races?

Postby edt » Tue Sep 24, 2013 11:14 pm

never mind how fast they go downwind, their upwind is more ridiculous 35 knots upwind at 30-35 degrees in less than 20 knots wind how is that even possible


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