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 Post subject: What can we do, to match there preformance ?
PostPosted: Sat Sep 21, 2013 3:42 am 
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Watching those Cup-racers with there Giant foil cats ; what can
we do to match there performance ?

The only wind-range i really care about is what i normally get at
Mohave, 15 to 30mph, (13 to 26Kt). Those cats are hitting 2.5 times
the wind-speed ; were Not !!

Bille


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 Post subject: Re: What can we do, to match there preformance ?
PostPosted: Sat Sep 21, 2013 4:19 am 
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36m kite attached directly to board with 200kg counterweight out from foilboard, certified insane pilot.


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 Post subject: Re: What can we do, to match there preformance ?
PostPosted: Sat Sep 21, 2013 6:40 am 
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longwhitecloud wrote:
36m kite attached directly to board with 200kg counterweight out from foilboard, certified insane pilot.


What about (1 aussie & 1 kiwi = authentic america's cup crews) 2x 19m ozone edges + tandom 2 larger kiters (100kg/210lbs each) on an old windsurfer board with 2 foils + 1 keg of beer for pre flight check, done :thumb: :naughty: :rollgrin:


Last edited by Mako on Sun Sep 22, 2013 11:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: What can we do, to match there preformance ?
PostPosted: Sat Sep 21, 2013 7:39 am 
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I am not sure what you mean by "we are not" ?

More than 2.5 times the windspeed is not unusual at all with the latest boards :thumb:

Especially in light wind, they excel (goes for all sailing watercraft, as you can only max the "times wind speed" in relatively light wind of course)

This is not possible with the classic speedboards, as they will never ever be able to cross that line, because they live on "being able to control in huge amounts of wind, but with extremely high drag at higher courses".
So there is a limit that does not really "move" much anymore.
And in terms of "times wind speed" they are useless :o

Even the slower raceboards can go pretty fast in light wind, 2 times the wind speed easily.

8) Peter


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 Post subject: Re: What can we do, to match there preformance ?
PostPosted: Sat Sep 21, 2013 7:58 am 
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Maybe a rigid wing like a HG connected via carbon nano tubes and hope like I love you don't crash it or chop someones head off?


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 Post subject: Re: What can we do, to match there preformance ?
PostPosted: Sat Sep 21, 2013 8:51 am 
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I'm sure that if Johnny Heineken had the choice of conditions and location and course, he could beat them. Likewise if they could choose their ideal conditions, location and course, they would win.

If only talking about maximum speed compared to wind speed, you would have to be reading wind speeds across a range up to 40m above the water and take tide into account (and maybe waves - this windsurfer is doing way above 2.5 times the wind speed near the end of this vid).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dls92zK2Qkg


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 Post subject: Re: What can we do, to match there preformance ?
PostPosted: Sat Sep 21, 2013 9:32 am 
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Peter_Frank wrote:
I am not sure what you mean by "we are not" ?

More than 2.5 times the windspeed is not unusual at all with the latest boards :thumb:

Especially in light wind, they excel (goes for all sailing watercraft, as you can only max the "times wind speed" in relatively light wind of course)
...

8) Peter


These guys are kicking at 38 to 44.1Kt , in only 17 to 20Kt's of wind ; didn't know
a kite board could do that !! I wanna see it timed on a closed cores before
i Totally believe it.

And like i said, that's average for Mohave, (17-21kt) ; don't care about less or a bunch more
just let me go that speed in it and i'll be Happy !!

Bille

@ --plummet-- , on 25M lines ; maybe add ailerons ?
I've had mine going 75Kt before ; still had more in her !
===================================================
EDIT :
Emirates Team New Zealand recorded a speed of 44.15 knots , ( 50.8 mph ).


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Last edited by Bille on Sat Sep 21, 2013 10:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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 Post subject: Re: What can we do, to match there preformance ?
PostPosted: Sat Sep 21, 2013 8:40 pm 
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I'm am totally on the fence at the moment regarding foils on boards. On one hand I think they work exceptionally on a vessel with a wide beam or out-rigger like a cat or Sail rocket for instance and even on a moth, my reservations however are regarding how sensitive and twitchy a foil would be on a kite board. I know they have been used for instance the Carafino boards but they must have been hard work?? I am in two minds they may have a use in choppy water for speed as from experience a standard speed board does not like bouncing on chop at 40 knots plus, they would not be affected at all by the water surface but up to what speed would they be stable I wonder? Personally I get massive efficiency in winds from 10 knots to 20 knots on a standard speed board and can get twice the wind speed quite easily, once over the 20 knot barrier it gets harder to double the wind speed due to drag and the wind window becoming more dynamic amongst other reasons. Some of the heavier speed riders do manage to keep that efficiency into 20-30knots but then even they reach a barrier. I think the kite is not so much the problem, I think something radical has to happen with the board that becomes a cross between a board and some kind of boat, weather it can then include foils or not I'm not sure but it could be more possible.


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 Post subject: Re: What can we do, to match there preformance ?
PostPosted: Sat Sep 21, 2013 9:02 pm 
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Peter_Frank wrote:
I am not sure what you mean by "we are not" ?

More than 2.5 times the windspeed is not unusual at all with the latest boards :thumb:


an ac72 can go 18 knots, in 8 knots of wind, upwind at an angle of 35 degrees, and 40 knots downwind in 20 knots of wind at an angle of 150. kiters are not even close to these sorts of numbers. Our foils can't go downwind at that kind of angle, our kites can't sail that close to the wind, and we have more drag in both the kite and the racing board than the ac class sailboats do.

I think it's ok, though, kiters aren't faster than a few sailboats, like for instance the tornado a 40 year old catamaran is supposed to be faster than a kite though a 49er, the fastest sailboat in the Olympics is supposed to be a bit slower than a kite.

The ac42 is also quite a bit faster than a kiteboarder.

kiters are plenty fast, we don't have to compete with the ac72's, we just need to have fun and do some races against other kiters.


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 Post subject: Re: What can we do, to match there preformance ?
PostPosted: Sat Sep 21, 2013 10:54 pm 
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edt wrote:
...

an ac72 can go 18 knots, in 8 knots of wind, upwind at an angle of 35 degrees, and 40 knots downwind in 20 knots of wind at an angle of 150. kiters are not even close to these sorts of numbers. Our foils can't go downwind at that kind of angle, our kites can't sail that close to the wind, and we have more drag in both the kite and the racing board than the ac class sailboats do.

...


Emirates Team New Zealand recorded a speed of 44.15 knots, ( 50.8 mph ) ; that
is Fast by any standard for only 20Kts of wind !!!

That's what I Wanna do on a cheap kite-boad set-up, (under $5K) since
i don't have a one hundred million dollar budget, like these guys !!!

Mohave hardly Ever blows less than 13Kt, so i don't Care about less wind as
a setup for less would rarely get used so it's not worth the money to Me. Now if i
lived in San Diego, that would be a different story.

I purchase kites that cover
13mph to 30mph, ( 11.2Kt to 26Kt ) ; in winter my 11M Edge gets used more
so the range gets stretched to 40mph, ( 35Kt ).

For ME, kiting in 35Kt of wind
is NOT as Fun as the High teens like 18 to 20Kt ; i'm Old and it Hurts more
when i fall in the Higher winds !!!

Bille


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