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 Post subject: Re: Old Flysurfer Speed
PostPosted: Thu Sep 26, 2013 4:11 pm 
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I have an old Speed 10 (original Speed 1) with a 4-2-1 homemade mixer and it's a pretty excellent kite. It has never once overflown, even in gusty winds. Excellent upwind and light wind performance. I think slightly better low end grunt than a Speed2 12 (although neither kite really has any decent grunt in my opinion). It's a bit like driving a 5 speed car stuck in 4th gear, requiring a little finesse and patience to get going but delivering well once you get it going. The leading edge zips are far better in my opinion than any subsequent Flysurfer deflate system. Bridles are pretty horrible, snarly, tangly, snagging on any plants, fish bones, feathers or anything else they can find.

My Speed 10 is currently on vacation for the past three years because I have better kites to fly, but I will pull it out again one of these months for some nostalgic old time fun.

I wouldn't recommend the kite to most people because the bridle issues can serve up more frustration than anyone needs to put up with nowadays....and if someone bought one on my recommendation he would probably want to severely harm me after dealing with his first major hassle. That being said, I still think it's a pretty great kite for its time and is enjoyable to fly.


Last edited by loco4viento on Fri Sep 27, 2013 7:53 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Old Flysurfer Speed
PostPosted: Fri Sep 27, 2013 2:15 am 
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Posts: 210
Not true about always needing a mixer adjustment (these claims drive me crazy). I adjust my kites once a year. Been using Flysurfers since 2004.

Since you kite on inland lakes, which are very gusty, Speed2 would be a bad choice for a Flysurfer purchase. The Speed2 does not do well in this area unless the mixer is adjusted to a super stable setting (B-1.5cm, C-4.5cm), but it is a nice lightwind kite, still use my 15m that I bought new quite a while ago. Speed1, Speed3, and Speed4 are more stable. If you get a chance, try a Speed4. It is by far the best foil I have ever used.


toyletbowl wrote:
NYkiter,

What are you looking for in the kite? $500 spent on a kite that is wrong for you is money waisted. If it's the right kite, then you are golden.

The Speed are very specific kites in my opinion and I see guys get really excited about them on the front end and then sell them a few years later.

Line tangles and collapsing canopy are 2 reasons. Slow, slow turning which is inherent in such a skinny kite.

It's a cool kite, but be prepared to do the mixer test often to make sure the bridling is accurate and works accordingly.

Years ago I bought 2 Speed 2 demos and never want to like a new kite more than this one, but after months and months of testing, it just wasn't the kite for me. We have a crew that rides really hard in the winter also and we all ride modern high depower LEI's.

Hope this helps and good luck either way.

Bob
www.kiteridersllc.com


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 Post subject: Re: Old Flysurfer Speed
PostPosted: Fri Sep 27, 2013 4:20 am 
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Location: Upper Padre . . . . --> Oleander
Personally, I think the fact that a 2005 kite retains any value whatsoever is quite a testament to the quality, performance and durability of the kite. In particular the Speed1 was awesome in the amount of power it generated for its size. I would frequently ride a Speed 7 (seven) meter when people were riding 13 meter tube kites. When the wind would drop I would switch from the 7 to the 17. Speed 7 and 17 was my 2 kite quivver.

Yes the bridles are a pain when they tangle. The kite turns (stand by to jibe) slow and water relaunch is only fair. Compared to the Slingshot Machine or any other of its contemporaries this kite kicked butt in light wind back then. And it can still get you out in less wind than most light wind kites today.

The bridle lines can stretch or shrink, especially the lines going over the pulley. This is also a well known phenomenon in paragliders. However, FS publishes line lengths, and provides replacement bridles, so bridle problems can be fixed. The easiest thing to do is replace pulley lines, wingtip ring lines, and then stretch other bridle lines back to stock length. This requires more brain power but less hassle, parts and frustration than repairing leaky one pumps which would also be a problem for a 2006 tube kite. In general,if you buy any 7 year old kite you will pay for it with time rather than money. You just have to decide what is more valuable to you.

The speed 1.5 mod is well documented on foil zone, or you can find someone smart to do it for you, and that offers a big improvement in turning speed, and depower, but without caution you can loose ultimate lightwind ability, which is what you really want in a 17 meter foil.

The rotoleash present on the advertised kite would suggest this kite does not have the mod.

---------------------

Yes the Speed4 is very awesome. And Speed3 would be my choice for a used FS especially in light winds. I'm flying foils and tubes.

---------------------

If you have the time and the gumption to get the bridle tuned up, I would offer him $200-250. You would probably want to read this first to see if you are up to the task:

Long Mixer Test Setting Speed 17

Jake


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 Post subject: Re: Old Flysurfer Speed
PostPosted: Fri Sep 27, 2013 4:47 am 
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Joined: Wed Jan 08, 2003 1:00 am
Posts: 2599
Location: Madison, Wi. Cabrinha, Slingshot, Blade, Axis, Mystic, NP Surf.
don pitcher wrote:
Not true about always needing a mixer adjustment (these claims drive me crazy). I adjust my kites once a year. Been using Flysurfers since 2004.

Since you kite on inland lakes, which are very gusty, Speed2 would be a bad choice for a Flysurfer purchase. The Speed2 does not do well in this area unless the mixer is adjusted to a super stable setting (B-1.5cm, C-4.5cm), but it is a nice lightwind kite, still use my 15m that I bought new quite a while ago. Speed1, Speed3, and Speed4 are more stable. If you get a chance, try a Speed4. It is by far the best foil I have ever used.


toyletbowl wrote:
NYkiter,

What are you looking for in the kite? $500 spent on a kite that is wrong for you is money waisted. If it's the right kite, then you are golden.

The Speed are very specific kites in my opinion and I see guys get really excited about them on the front end and then sell them a few years later.

Line tangles and collapsing canopy are 2 reasons. Slow, slow turning which is inherent in such a skinny kite.

It's a cool kite, but be prepared to do the mixer test often to make sure the bridling is accurate and works accordingly.

Years ago I bought 2 Speed 2 demos and never want to like a new kite more than this one, but after months and months of testing, it just wasn't the kite for me. We have a crew that rides really hard in the winter also and we all ride modern high depower LEI's.

Hope this helps and good luck either way.

Bob
www.kiteridersllc.com


Hi Don,

Thanks for the response....For sure there are some guys and conditions that this kite performs in perfectly. I don't dispute this and say so, but all my testing and experiences were not that great and I really really wanted to like that kite.. I had to do a mixer test right out of the box which was frustrating and once done, the kite still collapsed way too often and twice I had a spaghetti mess that took over 45 minutes to reset(lucky I was on snow or it would have been a nightmare swim if I was in the water). I used it exclusively in the winter, so rigging, setting up, launching and landing was not an issue, but for me it was still much more work than LEI's. I could walk out really far to set up, ride, land, etc. After a long winter of testing, there was just no way I would want it for ME in the water or the snow, so if I didn't personally like it, I had to pass on selling them.. It was an expensive "test" buying 2 demos, but that's what a good dealer will do. Test new kites and report the experience accurately. I was also right upfront with all my info on foilzone back then and got a lot of good advice and tips. It was just not my style kite though and others agreed. Some guys love them, but even guys who live in wide open big lakes or oceans have traded in FS kites for rigged framed LEI's.

I much prefer a really really fast turning kite with a solid frame for wave riding and a quick turning high depower kite for boosting and twin tip riding.

Good winds.

Bob
www.kiteridersllc.com


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 Post subject: Re: Old Flysurfer Speed
PostPosted: Fri Sep 27, 2013 12:07 pm 
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Joined: Mon Sep 27, 2010 2:47 am
Posts: 534
jakemoore wrote:
Personally, I think the fact that a 2005 kite retains any value whatsoever is quite a testament to the quality, performance and durability of the kite. In particular the Speed1 was awesome in the amount of power it generated for its size. I would frequently ride a Speed 7 (seven) meter when people were riding 13 meter tube kites. When the wind would drop I would switch from the 7 to the 17. Speed 7 and 17 was my 2 kite quivver.

Yes the bridles are a pain when they tangle. The kite turns (stand by to jibe) slow and water relaunch is only fair. Compared to the Slingshot Machine or any other of its contemporaries this kite kicked butt in light wind back then. And it can still get you out in less wind than most light wind kites today.

The bridle lines can stretch or shrink, especially the lines going over the pulley. This is also a well known phenomenon in paragliders. However, FS publishes line lengths, and provides replacement bridles, so bridle problems can be fixed. The easiest thing to do is replace pulley lines, wingtip ring lines, and then stretch other bridle lines back to stock length. This requires more brain power but less hassle, parts and frustration than repairing leaky one pumps which would also be a problem for a 2006 tube kite. In general,if you buy any 7 year old kite you will pay for it with time rather than money. You just have to decide what is more valuable to you.

The speed 1.5 mod is well documented on foil zone, or you can find someone smart to do it for you, and that offers a big improvement in turning speed, and depower, but without caution you can loose ultimate lightwind ability, which is what you really want in a 17 meter foil.

The rotoleash present on the advertised kite would suggest this kite does not have the mod.

---------------------

Yes the Speed4 is very awesome. And Speed3 would be my choice for a used FS especially in light winds. I'm flying foils and tubes.

---------------------

If you have the time and the gumption to get the bridle tuned up, I would offer him $200-250. You would probably want to read this first to see if you are up to the task:

Long Mixer Test Setting Speed 17

Jake


Jake,

Thanks. I plan on taking the Speed 17 out a few times and sending it to Power Zone for mods if I like it. At what max wind speed would you get off the water with the 17?


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 Post subject: Re: Old Flysurfer Speed
PostPosted: Fri Sep 27, 2013 2:59 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jan 20, 2004 3:59 am
Posts: 872
Location: Upper Padre . . . . --> Oleander
You are going to get a lot of opinions there and its also going to depend on other conditions and also how the kite is modded and tuned. It can be tuned to be better in the higher or the lower part of its windrange.

Me personally, I would get off it as soon as I thought there was enough wind to fly a smaller more dynamic kite.

I would think of the giant FS as more an insurance policy so you don't get skunked, rather than your go to kite.

Jake


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 Post subject: Re: Old Flysurfer Speed
PostPosted: Fri Sep 27, 2013 4:41 pm 
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Joined: Thu Dec 31, 2009 6:18 am
Posts: 376
Location: Quebec
NYKiter wrote:
Can anyone tell me about the old flysurfer speed?
How is it similar or different from today's speed 3? Relaunch ability off the water etc?
Thanks :roll:

Been riding speed for the last 5 years. Speed 3;12, 15, 19 and 21. I have now a speed 4 10 m. There is a big difference between speed 4 and speed 3 and there was also a big difference between the s3 and s2. I wouldn't want to be caught behind a first generation speed in gusty weather unless you like being lofted.

You can use the mixer test to adjust the main lines, but the bridles also wear so even if your mixer test is ok you might get the end of the wing collapsing. Also the cloth get like tissue after many years and it wont fly too good.

If you really want to enjoy the speed get a recent model.


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