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 Post subject: Re: (Making a Bar) Whats the Length of Ozone throw?
PostPosted: Sun Sep 29, 2013 1:46 pm 
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Don Lester wrote:
I believe the Stock Ozone stroke was 16".

Thanks man!
Nice bar.
Your bar setup doesn't flag fully to one line? That knot looks a little large for the CL hole. Anyway thats pretty much how I've been flying my Edges for the past year. Only wished I had the full flag once :o :o I'll be riding waves this winter and I'll need it if the kite gets washed in the shore break.


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 Post subject: Re: (Making a Bar) Whats the Length of Ozone throw?
PostPosted: Sun Sep 29, 2013 8:13 pm 
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Thanks............ I guess I don't know what the "full flag" specification is. When on the safety my set-up flags 38" on one front line and 50" on both rear lines. That's using the stock Ozone bunggied safety line, after that, you're right the knot will not pass through the North Iron Heart hole. Now, if I made a new safety line I could eliminate that red jumper line and gain another 6 to 7 inches of " flag- out" on the other front line. I'm guilty of not full testing this set-up, in wind.........


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 Post subject: Re: (Making a Bar) Whats the Length of Ozone throw?
PostPosted: Sun Sep 29, 2013 9:33 pm 
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Don Lester wrote:
Thanks............ I guess I don't know what the "full flag" specification is. When on the safety my set-up flags 38" on one front line and 50" on both rear lines. That's using the stock Ozone bunggied safety line, after that, you're right the knot will not pass through the North Iron Heart hole. Now, if I made a new safety line I could eliminate that red jumper line and gain another 6 to 7 inches of " flag- out" on the other front line. I'm guilty of not full testing this set-up, in wind.........

That flags out further than I thought. You'd probably be alright in most situations.
I think the specifications for a single front line flag is "not less that one full kite span" Meaning your bar should travel at least the length of the kite (up the safety line) before it stops at a stopper ball. That way there will be no tension on any other line except the flag line.
Your setup in high wind will have some tension still on the other front line and possibly start rolling the kite and still dragging you. I had this happen to me just recently and I came into the beach with a looping kite. Lucky someone caught it for me or I was going to have to let er go. :o Hence, why I'm rebuilding the bar :D


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 Post subject: Re: (Making a Bar) Whats the Length of Ozone throw?
PostPosted: Sun Sep 29, 2013 9:45 pm 
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Don Lester wrote:
Thanks............ I guess I don't know what the "full flag" specification is. When on the safety my set-up flags 38" on one front line and 50" on both rear lines. That's using the stock Ozone bunggied safety line, after that, you're right the knot will not pass through the North Iron Heart hole. Now, if I made a new safety line I could eliminate that red jumper line and gain another 6 to 7 inches of " flag- out" on the other front line. I'm guilty of not full testing this set-up, in wind.........


Don this is not safe. When you are using a mini-5th line you can let the center line flag out a yard or two, what happens is the pulleys in the kite will then rotate the kite on the bridle and dump power from the kite .

When you are using a single center line flagging system the bridle is not used to flag the kite, instead the kite needs enough room to hold all the power on that one attachment point -- just like a flag.

This distance required for the bar to shoot up is one wingtip. You can get a tape measure to find out the exact width of your kite, but since most people use a bar with more than one type of kite, you should allow the kite to shoot up at least 10 meters.


If you only let the bar on a single line flagging system shoot up 38 inches or 50 inches and you try to use it on a kite that has a short no pulley bridle you will eventually put the kite into a death loop.

The bar has to shoot up 10 meters . . . or 400 inches. 50 inches is not even close to enough.

If you can't get it to go up that much because it won't fit through the chicken loop system, I suggest going back to a mini-5th line system, it will be safer than using a single line system that doesn't go up far enough.


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 Post subject: Re: (Making a Bar) Whats the Length of Ozone throw?
PostPosted: Sun Sep 29, 2013 10:48 pm 
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Ya, what etd said is correct. Thats why I engineered my new bar like you see in the photo. I still have not tested it and there will be a small knot under the nylon stopper but I think it may still pass through the iron heart hole easily. If not I can just attach a ring to a rope on the side of the iron heart as the new hole.
Like I was saying, I flew my kite like your setup for a good amount of time before I had an incident. I even had an "oh Shit handle" but it would not work either because by the time I got to it, the kite had already looped 5-8 times and all the lines were too twisted.
I quickly found myself sorting through limited options as I was being dragged by a looping kite. Option A. Release the kite
B. Release the kite and just hold onto the leash until it yanks it from my hand or someone is able to help out.
I opted for option B and found that I could use my board against the water to ferry myself to the side of the kite which slowed the loop frequency down. I got lucky and someone caught my kite near the shore.
No option C No self rescue

If you want the single front line flag system, you will need a swivel. Switch sells them for about $7. You would also need a new front line.

All the best,
Stephen


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 Post subject: Re: (Making a Bar) Whats the Length of Ozone throw?
PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 5:09 pm 
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Thanks guys for the heads-up. I'm guilty of being under-educated on 4-line systems as I've been flying Rebels for many years now. What confuses me is the modifications I made ( I thought ) didn't change the amount of safety the stock Ozone system afforded and I was lead to believe that was a " full flag " system. Am I wrong in this assumption ? Here's what Ozones says :

"Added benefits on the Race Control System include our proven Flag Out Safety System with the Megatron Quick Release Chicken loop, offering simple flag out release of the kite. The release exceeds all Kitesurf loading and release EU NORM safety standards."

I'm assuming you put the swivel on the safety front line, before or after the " Y " fitting ?

Thanks for your help.........


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 Post subject: Re: (Making a Bar) Whats the Length of Ozone throw?
PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 5:39 pm 
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I see where you are confused. you can NOT use a Y with a front line flag. you must have a V. you have to make new leaders to match a low V


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 Post subject: Re: (Making a Bar) Whats the Length of Ozone throw?
PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 11:02 pm 
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Why do you change safety features without understading them! Stop this maddnes.
http://www.flyozone.com/kitesurf/en/pro ... loop/info/


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 Post subject: Re: (Making a Bar) Whats the Length of Ozone throw?
PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 11:14 pm 
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one more thing don, fly already knows this (he's designing a work-around) but there should not be a knot in your flag out system.

The way it is supposed to work is there is a 2mm hole, which the 1.75mm kite line can easily pass through but the 3mm elastic line can not. You don't want to knot the kite line nor knot the elastic line but lark's head them together and it will naturally stop at the plastic block/rope stopper/spinner what have you on the bar. Then the entire line can pass pass through the spinner/block/what have you, pass through the chicken loop and safety system without catching.

You might have to take a look at a naish, ozone, liquid force or other single front line flagging system so you understand. Don't kill yourself.


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 Post subject: Re: (Making a Bar) Whats the Length of Ozone throw?
PostPosted: Tue Oct 01, 2013 7:57 am 
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Don Lester wrote:
Thanks guys for the heads-up. I'm guilty of being under-educated on 4-line systems as I've been flying Rebels for many years now. What confuses me is the modifications I made ( I thought ) didn't change the amount of safety the stock Ozone system afforded and I was lead to believe that was a " full flag " system. Am I wrong in this assumption ? Here's what Ozones says :

"Added benefits on the Race Control System include our proven Flag Out Safety System with the Megatron Quick Release Chicken loop, offering simple flag out release of the kite. The release exceeds all Kitesurf loading and release EU NORM safety standards."

I'm assuming you put the swivel on the safety front line, before or after the " Y " fitting ?

Thanks for your help.........

I'm a little confused by your question.
Check out my photo of the bar I've just done.
The pully/ swivel has only 1 line attached to it. The safety line will pass through the swivel (not attached) but it will act like its attached because there is a stopper ball just under it. This means you would have to tie a knot at the bottom of the ball so the load pushes the ball into the swivel (in which it cannot pass through)
The attachment for a swivel is the same as if you didnt use a swivel and only the depower pulley. You posted a pic of your bar with the pulley only. You would need to ditch that and replace it with a pulley swivel combo to set up a working single front line flag mod.
Hope I answered your question.
Fun making shit work. Let us know if you've got more questions.


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