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 Post subject: Re: RRD safety system fail
PostPosted: Wed Oct 02, 2013 5:25 pm 
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AAAAAnddd..

this is why I refuse to fly kites with bridles and pulleys. If more people did we may steer the market in a safer direction.


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 Post subject: Re: RRD safety system fail
PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2013 1:26 am 
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Joined: Wed Oct 05, 2011 3:52 am
Posts: 51
Location: Sandy Lane, Barbados
Thank you for your comments on this topic, it is very helpful to me. You make a good point that in 30 - 40 knots things are different and that is why i'm concerned with these RRD kites. I will be using them to teach in these crazy high winds over the next couple months and I want to make sure I understand them & take every precaution. It is VERY scary.

haiku wrote:
Hi. I use kites of all brands and among them RRD kites (Obsession, Addiction and Religion). Everytime I fly for the first time a new kite I check the QR on the beach (in this case bar V4 and V5). All seemed to work properly but when things go really wrong is a totally different matter; the death loop traction is something very hard to deal with and I've experienced myself a crazy situation like that with a Cabrinha kite (broken line...). In that case I released first the QR and after that I pulled the second security on the harness loop, letting the kite go (I was alone in the water...). All worked fine and later I was able to recover the kite (Cab Switchblade 2011). This system with a double security (four lines..) and others with the fifth line seem to be the best. Back to RRD kites I've never pulled the security in a dangerous situation and what has been reported in this topic scares me like hell because with the Religion 6 I've had some wave sessions in big waves and 34/40 Knots :o ! Noticed that during a wave session I always connect the QR leash near the harness hook so I can let the kite go......but in this case seems not enough! Said that I hope RRD distributors or athlets add to this discussion some important contributions and advices. Safety first: going out with a QR that doesn't work in a emergency situation looks like playing the russian roulette!
Cheers
Carlo


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 Post subject: Re: RRD safety system fail
PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2013 6:26 am 
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sarc wrote:
AAAAAnddd..

this is why I refuse to fly kites with bridles and pulleys. If more people did we may steer the market in a safer direction.


you obviously don't know enough about kite design.


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 Post subject: Re: RRD safety system fail
PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2013 9:49 am 
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This is why I ride 5th line too. A dude drowned in Canada recently in similar circumstances. Over the years I have seen a near drowning on a Cabrinha Bow, on an Fone Bandit and various other lesser deathloops on many other kite brands. Seen someone kiteloop head into beach from same thing (knocked out 10 minutes).... Friend nearly killed too - his words.... Possibly a student died of this is New Caledonia too during a lesson a few years ago ( french friend in New Cal told me this).

It can happen on 5th line c kites too (bar wrap), but 5th line c kites cut out a few other ways deathloops can happen (pulley jam, bridle wrap, pulley break etc...)

Don't think the answer for beginner and intermediate is lower depower kites tho (eg some/not all c kites /5th 4 line kites..) - just more thought in design. I would guess high depower bridle pulley kites have saved kiters too.


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 Post subject: Re: RRD safety system fail
PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2013 10:03 am 
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Easy way to check if QR will work under load attach kite to car or jeep in high winds loop kite QR if it QR under load kite looping at least you know QR works,then you can see if it DE POWERS and how kite reacts when safety is activated my experience,ive tried this with NORTH, and NAISH, 2 great safety systems,others not so good,TONY


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 Post subject: Re: RRD safety system fail
PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2013 10:07 am 
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I had a front line pulley break on my 09 Xbow (bad batch of pulleys). Kite looped.
I was using an 08 Nobile 555 bar which works fine with it.

When I flagged it to 'both' front lines because of the (maybe 5?) loops it had done, it didn't depower much and it then managed to get the bridle snagged on a wingtip and looped harder and faster.

The Nobile bar had O-shit releases on the rear lines so I pulled one of those and although there were more twists by this time, it slowly slid through and after about 10 seconds had flagged out.

So having O-shits is a good backup - if you get enough time and you can get back to the bar. I was lucky to be standing in shallow water getting slowly dragged into deeper water.
I could always have let it go completely.


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 Post subject: Re: RRD safety system fail
PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2013 10:20 am 
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tony montana wrote:
Easy way to check if QR will work under load attach kite to car or jeep in high winds loop kite



... are you for real... :o ... Watch your lines snap or kite rip in half.

The guy that said "not to fly bridal kites" is clueless as well. Bridled kites have been dominating the PKRA for many years now and even won a few :wink: ... What has been described in these posts could happen on all kite desings. There used to be loftings on old 4 line c-kites, bad wraps and inverted 5 line kites, looping 5 line kites, north rebels which would hover mid air and never come down....


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 Post subject: Re: RRD safety system fail
PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2013 10:48 am 
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How hard would be for IKA to step in and saying to the industry – you want your kite to be part of the KPS, PKRA, Race or any other ISAF/IKA championship? Fine, show us:
- Your quick release works under load
- By design bridles can´t catch a wing tip
- O´shit handles are part of the bar
- Your kite will depower X-much after X many loops
- Whatever make sense…

Market pressure is just not enough, some things being said should be part of the past and RRD is not even offering a comment.

At least Dimitri, for all the pimping, he´s around taking the heat when things go bad


Last edited by Tiago1973 on Thu Oct 03, 2013 7:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: RRD safety system fail
PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2013 11:37 am 
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What - the IKA that publicly published this (extracts) and didn't take onboard/ take seriously any concerns whatsoever. I see they are initiating competition to IKO etc now working with Isaf. In my opinion their conflict of interest saw them not keeping it real and honest.

"There have been safety issues in the past which have been overcome since approx eight years."
"There is no difference to standard sailing regattas in respect of numbers of boats, marks etc, no additional resources or facilities are needed."
"Kites flag out when releasing safety system ("kite will have no more power whatsoever")
"Although kiteboarding accidents still happen, they are rare."
"It is no more dangerous than any other sport."


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 Post subject: Re: RRD safety system fail
PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2013 11:44 am 
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BillyGoatGruff wrote:
tony montana wrote:
Easy way to check if QR will work under load attach kite to car or jeep in high winds loop kite



... are you for real... :o ... Watch your lines snap or kite rip in half.

The guy that said "not to fly bridal kites" is clueless as well. Bridled kites have been dominating the PKRA for many years now and even won a few :wink: ... What has been described in these posts could happen on all kite desings. There used to be loftings on old 4 line c-kites, bad wraps and inverted 5 line kites, looping 5 line kites, north rebels which would hover mid air and never come down....


Could you elaborate on that last comment? I have Rebels from four different years back to 08 and have never observed this. They don't always drop like a rock on the fifth line but none of them are still flying :-)


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