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 Post subject: Re: Sudden boost in winds...
PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2013 4:43 pm 
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not sure where to find it, but we had the video of the guy who flew into the trees. the QR is right in front of him and he just doesn't release it.

we need to train for that moment to be able to release!!!


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 Post subject: Re: Sudden boost in winds...
PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2013 4:54 pm 
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Joined: Thu Feb 17, 2011 2:19 pm
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Location: North Texas
Again I thank everyone for their input...

To attempt to answer a few questions:
"why was I kiting the shoreline" ... the shoreline was actually a peninsula and I was transitioning at the time of the wind increase. I do not make it a practice of kiting close to shore, I was in the wrong place at the wrong time.

"why didn't I throw the safety" ... I have no logical answer or excuse. After the humbling I've received today (and at the beach), I will never delay throwing the safety again.

I've been kiting for a little over 2yrs and we've just come off a long lull of zero wind here. It had been over 2 months since my last session.

Again...thanks guys


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 Post subject: Re: Sudden boost in winds...
PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2013 5:01 pm 
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well here is my theory: Most people throw the safety about once every other year. So there is no muscle memory. I think it's that simple.

For most kiters, the brain has to think "This looks like a dangerous situation, let us analyze the options, the safety might be good, the safety on this kite is a push away, I need to grab it, and then push, and now to activate it."

So it takes something like 2 or 3 seconds for the conscious mind to figure it all out.

Compare that to slamming the brakes on the car it doesn't require any conscious thought. Just a feeling of "danger!" and the foot hits the brakes. That's all muscle memory.

I don't think this is a matter of teaching. That is you can't teach people "Remember to throw the safety!" That won't do anything.

I think kiters should throw the QR more than once every other year. Schedule a time to do it if you want, or try it right before you kite.

It will keep the action in muscle memory instead of requiring a conscious thought. Seaplus has no idea why he didn't throw it, I think things just happen so fast that the conscious mind is not a reliable tool to use.

We need to rely on the unconscious mind and muscle memory, and this requires practice. Even if you have kited for 10 years, you still need to throw the safety from time to time so the muscle memory is still there.

I think toby said it more succinctly

"we need to train for that moment to be able to release!!!"


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 Post subject: Re: Sudden boost in winds...
PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2013 5:15 pm 
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Location: Denmark
I think edt is spot on here :thumb:

Having said that, I dont practice releasing myself (and risk getting hurt or die, I know), because it would make a mess because of seaweed, and be very very bad for the gear as almost no "beach" here (narrow), or cause a wet kite and seaweed all over the lines and bridles.

If I had a wider beach it would maybe make a difference :D Maybe not :(

Practicing QR'ing often is the safest thing to do, so it is in muscle memory, yes, agree !

8) Peter


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 Post subject: Re: Sudden boost in winds...
PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2013 5:41 pm 
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Actually I think this can be trained. While I was training my wife to kite I set out rules right at the beginning before we even started.

1. Before you ask for a launch test release your safety and rearm it
2. when launching assisted, one hand on the bar one hand on the safety
3. keep your kite low unless you are water starting
4. If you have a free hand it should be on your safety
5. You must be able to body drag up and down wind before you get to use a board
6. You must be able to deep water self rescue before you get to use a board
7. You will not get assistance landing your kite, you will self rescue each time you want to come in
8. Have fun or else!

And that just covers the basics... there is all kinds of posture and etiquette I instilled in her even during trainer kite flying... such as, I would throw pebbles at her whenever her hands were too far apart.

anyhow, the point is, she knows where her safety is and how it feels to use it.
shes even got a little saying she uses to remind her to release the moment there is danger or uncertainty.
I know it seems a bit obsessive but now we can both kite and I don't have to worry too much about her. I know her instincts are good and she'd have no problem letting a kite go and if in trouble she can get herself to safety.
By starting with the above rules I trained her to use her safety as if it was a daily part of kiting.


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 Post subject: Re: Sudden boost in winds...
PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2013 5:44 pm 
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Location: Ford Lake, Michigan
U don't have to fly kite to practice the qr tie lines to post lean back and hit the qr that's enough to train the muscle memory


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 Post subject: Re: Sudden boost in winds...
PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2013 6:30 pm 
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I admit that I'm also naughty. I haven't hit my release in over 4 years. In fact I have one bar where I'm not sure what will happen when I release (very naughty). Mea culpa. I promise to QR all my bars the next time I have a wide, clean beach to work with. Knowing how the kite will react is as important as to have the QR become a reflex.

Don


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 Post subject: Re: Sudden boost in winds...
PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2013 7:30 pm 
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Don Monnot wrote:
I admit that I'm also naughty. I haven't hit my release in over 4 years. In fact I have one bar where I'm not sure what will happen when I release (very naughty). Mea culpa. I promise to QR all my bars the next time I have a wide, clean beach to work with. Knowing how the kite will react is as important as to have the QR become a reflex.

Don


Agree - otherwise you WILL start to think and hesitate easier, and could be too late :roll:

I am a crook too regarding practising this :oops:

8) Peter


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 Post subject: Re: Sudden boost in winds...
PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2013 8:31 pm 
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Laughingman wrote:
2. when launching assisted, one hand on the bar one hand on the safety


This one kind of bothers me. You have less control over the kite that way and it's almost like you are setting yourself up to have to use the safety when it isn't really necessary.

What about just letting go of the bar? We had a bad accident over here during a launch where the guy got distracted with a new control system during gusty conditions and he didn't let go of the bar when he got yanked off his feet so he ended up getting dragged into the rocks. If he had just let go, he might have avoided a trip to the emergency room. If you let go of the bar and then reach for the QR, you have the option of regaining control of the kite or punching out. In some situations it might be better to be able to relaunch the kite rather than having to self-rescue (obviously more likely in the water).


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 Post subject: Re: Sudden boost in winds...
PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2013 8:53 pm 
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Location: Southwestern Ontario
Thor SFBay wrote:
Laughingman wrote:
2. when launching assisted, one hand on the bar one hand on the safety


This one kind of bothers me. You have less control over the kite that way and it's almost like you are setting yourself up to have to use the safety when it isn't really necessary.

What about just letting go of the bar? We had a bad accident over here during a launch where the guy got distracted with a new control system during gusty conditions and he didn't let go of the bar when he got yanked off his feet so he ended up getting dragged into the rocks. If he had just let go, he might have avoided a trip to the emergency room. If you let go of the bar and then reach for the QR, you have the option of regaining control of the kite or punching out. In some situations it might be better to be able to relaunch the kite rather than having to self-rescue (obviously more likely in the water).


I hear where you are coming from but you should not need a high level of control when launching, before you give a thumbs up the kite should be stable and you should have double checked everything. If the kite reacts oddly when it is let go, having your hand on the release will without doubt save seconds, seconds you may need. If you just let go of the bar and you get yanked before you get your hand on the release you will be on the ground before you find it and at that point may not be able to get to it. You should only need two hands on the bar when you are steering the kite aggressively and or jumping etc...other then that one hand controls the kite, the other if free should be on the release. imho


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