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Self Launch Anchor Technique Problem

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SupaEZ
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Re: Self Launch Anchor Technique Problem

Postby SupaEZ » Thu Oct 17, 2013 2:29 pm

Peter_Frank wrote:

Something is rotten in the state of Denmark
8) Peter


I like that expression
We have one similar here in USA........i smell a rat :wink:

Check this out:

You get to your bar at the anchor and put the CL in your harness hook...
....while kite sits pretty on wingtip

Next without touching the bar and keeping the trim line fully depowered like it was....
..... i walk upwind 10..20..30 degrees...keeping front line tension by stepping also back very little

Guess what happens as the inside of kite fills in with wind....it lifts off the ground....
...without any bar input


Next example:

Kite is anchored with perfect technique
Bar is fully out....trim line all the way in...kite is sitting pretty and stable on wingtip

Next there is a slight 3-5 knot gust and windshift of 30 degrees that fills the kite with wind
Guess what happens too....the kite will also lift off the ground while anchored

So what makes the kite lift off is kiter positioning or wind changing direction...both will do for lift

Agreed we do not know what brand/style kite his 12 m2 was
And we were not there to make sure his technique was precise and perfect

What we do know is the wind direction was sideshore...
....and from experience i know that more often than none that direction is shifty and a bit gusty

So his wind went likely suddenly side side off with a puff to lift his kite up

We can all come out smelling like roses :fans: (USA expression)....
..... if we are consistent.... precise.... and disciplined during all launches

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Peter_Frank
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Re: Self Launch Anchor Technique Problem

Postby Peter_Frank » Thu Oct 17, 2013 3:57 pm

edt wrote:peter an anchored c kite will pop up even in smooth wind, both tumbling and hot launching or just drifting downwind and then zooming up and around the other side one reason I never anchor launch if there is any other option.


All C kites I've seen or flown, will "fall" down if you have it in the air, and put it to one side and let go of the bar :thumb:

Also, all SLE kites I've used, will stay put during anchor launch, even if I walk upwind - so a bit baffled over what SupaEZ experiences ?
Even if it should be able to launch, at extreme downwind angles - it will simply fall/drift/soar down on the side again, just like a C kite does :naughty:

During the maybe 2000 anchor launch/landings I've had - the only 3 times it has gone wrong, has been when a line or knot has snagged, or the bar stuck or line twisted at bar end.
It has NEVER gone wrong during a landing, where an undiscovered line snag or bar jam is out of the question - only during the launches a couple of times as said, and my own fault it seems.

Whereas the slide launch has gone "bad" much more often, and really dangerous, compared, IMO.
But the only way you can launch, if you land for a break or to fix something, at a spot (maybe out on a sand bank) away from your launch, and has to get up again.


Interesting topic now - I will do some testing to see how the kite behaves at more extreme angles, to see if a rumor or true !

8) Peter

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edt
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Re: Self Launch Anchor Technique Problem

Postby edt » Thu Oct 17, 2013 4:01 pm

Peter_Frank wrote:All C kites I've seen or flown, will "fall" down if you have it in the air, and put it to one side and let go of the bar


I'm sure you still have c kites, go grab a c kite let go of the bar, it will fall down. Now wait for a few minutes. It will eventually hop back into the air. You can wait all day a bridled kite won't do this.

14ToeSide
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Re: Self Launch Anchor Technique Problem

Postby 14ToeSide » Thu Oct 17, 2013 4:59 pm

I can tell you from 1st hand experience that a Kite CAN take off the ground By itself if you have the Chix loop anchored to a pole or some other deal.

3 years ago, I had a Cabrinha Contra 17 sitting nicely on its edge as I made my way back to unhook the Chix look and hook it into my harness. Much to my surprise, the kite had launched itself and was headed to 12 O'clock. Pulled the loop I had it attached too up and OFF the pole and the kite landed about 50 yards downwind in a Pool of a Local Hotel.

So now i keep my hand on one of the lines as I walk back just in case.

14
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donohu90
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Re: Self Launch Anchor Technique Problem

Postby donohu90 » Thu Oct 17, 2013 5:09 pm

SupaEZ wrote:
Peter_Frank wrote:

Something is rotten in the state of Denmark
8) Peter


I like that expression
We have one similar here in USA........i smell a rat :wink:

Check this out:

You get to your bar at the anchor and put the CL in your harness hook...
....while kite sits pretty on wingtip

Next without touching the bar and keeping the trim line fully depowered like it was....
..... i walk upwind 10..20..30 degrees...keeping front line tension by stepping also back very little

Guess what happens as the inside of kite fills in with wind....it lifts off the ground....
...without any bar input


Next example:

Kite is anchored with perfect technique
Bar is fully out....trim line all the way in...kite is sitting pretty and stable on wingtip

Next there is a slight 3-5 knot gust and windshift of 30 degrees that fills the kite with wind
Guess what happens too....the kite will also lift off the ground while anchored

So what makes the kite lift off is kiter positioning or wind changing direction...both will do for lift

Agreed we do not know what brand/style kite his 12 m2 was
And we were not there to make sure his technique was precise and perfect

What we do know is the wind direction was sideshore...
....and from experience i know that more often than none that direction is shifty and a bit gusty

So his wind went likely suddenly side side off with a puff to lift his kite up

We can all come out smelling like roses :fans: (USA expression)....
..... if we are consistent.... precise.... and disciplined during all launches


It was a 2012 Cabrinha Vector. I thought I remember it blowing very much side shore. Later it was blowing side on. Bar was out and lines were free of snags, but the depower strap wasn't pulled.

If it was high tide at the time. The beach did have somewhat of a steep slope to it. I wonder if the wind followed an upward path from the beach and contributed to the kite lifting up.

SupaEZ
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Re: Self Launch Anchor Technique Problem

Postby SupaEZ » Thu Oct 17, 2013 5:38 pm

donohu90 wrote:
It was a 2012 Cabrinha Vector. I thought I remember it blowing very much side shore. Later it was blowing side on. Bar was out and lines were free of snags, but the depower strap was not pulled

If it was high tide at the time. The beach did have somewhat of a steep slope to it. I wonder if the wind followed an upward path from the beach and contributed to the kite lifting up.


Great details that help
Yes the steep slope has something to do with it...also a slope makes kite more unstable on wingtip
Yes not having the depower strap pulled has a lot to do with it...the back lines are not loose enough
This combo could definitely help the kite to lift off like it did...
....especially with a little gust and wind shift into the canopy

Thanks :cheers:

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Peter_Frank
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Re: Self Launch Anchor Technique Problem

Postby Peter_Frank » Thu Oct 17, 2013 6:39 pm

IMO it does not matter if the depower is let out, or pulled...

A kite, if nothing is "wrong" with the lines, will NOT continue to fly up to 12, even if it takes off, when on its side.
It will drift down again, as soon as it is airborne - if nothing is wrong with the lines :D

I dont start with the depower fully activated, unless it was left there as it often is though, because most kites becomes more unstable and flapping.

Prefer to have wind filling the kite (canopy), so trim sometimes powered up fully for this to happen (as the bar is let out) - much better :thumb:

8) Peter

Tiago1973
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Re: Self Launch Anchor Technique Problem

Postby Tiago1973 » Thu Oct 17, 2013 7:32 pm

what´s the reason for anchor launch instead of self launch?

never anchor launch. think i will be really un-confident (does this word exist?!) by releasing a kite in the air without having the bar under my control

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edt
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Re: Self Launch Anchor Technique Problem

Postby edt » Thu Oct 17, 2013 8:08 pm

People like to tether launch because it is the easiest method to learn and they feel like it is safe. Most tether launchers have never had an angry kite pick up a 1 inch thick steel post and hurl it at them at 25 knots so they tend to underestimate the dangers. As a kiter gains experience they learn other techniques like setting the kite at the edge of the beach with some sand on it swimming out with the bar unwinding it as you go and then dragging the kite into the water for a water launch.

Tether launching is usually the first kiters learn (some kiters never other any other technique) because of the simplicity. Experienced kiters will say the reason they tether launch is there is too much seaweed for other self launches.

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Peter_Frank
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Re: Self Launch Anchor Technique Problem

Postby Peter_Frank » Thu Oct 17, 2013 9:49 pm

edt wrote:People like to tether launch because it is the easiest method to learn and they feel like it is safe. Most tether launchers have never had an angry kite pick up a 1 inch thick steel post and hurl it at them at 25 knots so they tend to underestimate the dangers. As a kiter gains experience they learn other techniques like setting the kite at the edge of the beach with some sand on it swimming out with the bar unwinding it as you go and then dragging the kite into the water for a water launch.

Tether launching is usually the first kiters learn (some kiters never other any other technique) because of the simplicity. Experienced kiters will say the reason they tether launch is there is too much seaweed for other self launches.


I completely disagree, almost with everything here edt !

It might be so at your area, but here, very few or noone tether launch, when new.
Some experienced have never tried it either - dont know how to (they say, and amazed when they see it)
And every single kitesurfer riding waves (not beginners), does it all the time.

Having had an angry kite hurl a steel post towards them ?
Simply NOT possible in any way...
When you put the kite on its side, and walk towards the bar - then NO MATTER WHAT IS WRONG - your kite will only pull the anchor up and rip it downwind - NEVER towards you.
This very thing is what can save your life - as it is only the kite that might get destroyed, not yourself :naughty:

Being hooked to a kite where the launch goes wrong can be deadly :o
Maybe just me, but I prefer losing my kite, over losing my life :roll:

The basic "old" method of starting, the slide or sand launch, is not very good nor safe IMO, compared.

When kitesurfers get more experienced, many learn to tether launch, because of the safety and so many options not possible with any other method.

8) Peter


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