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 Post subject: Re: Self Launch Anchor Technique Problem
PostPosted: Thu Oct 17, 2013 9:53 pm 
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well I hope we agree on one thing, it's a very easy technique. you replace a helper with a carabiner on the chicken loop and it's like a normal assisted launch. other launch techniques are more technical. This is why I see tethered favored by beginners around here. I don't like the slide launch too much wear on the kite. It is definitely weird if you have beginners doing more advanced techniques like a reverse launch or swimming drift launch while the experts doing a tether launch.


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 Post subject: Re: Self Launch Anchor Technique Problem
PostPosted: Thu Oct 17, 2013 10:04 pm 
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Peter_Frank wrote:
I completely disagree, almost with everything here edt !



IMO........ that's your best one yet....opinion that is

:cheers: :winner2:


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 Post subject: Re: Self Launch Anchor Technique Problem
PostPosted: Thu Oct 17, 2013 10:18 pm 
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edt wrote:
well I hope we agree on one thing, it's a very easy technique. you replace a helper with a carabiner on the chicken loop and it's like a normal assisted launch. other launch techniques are more technical. This is why I see tethered favored by beginners around here. I don't like the slide launch too much wear on the kite. It is definitely weird if you have beginners doing more advanced techniques like a reverse launch or swimming drift launch while the experts doing a tether launch.


Nope - there is a huge difference - it is NOT a helper replaced with a carabiner only.

When you have a helper - and lines are snagged - it is YOU that gets catapulted through the air, instead of a stake or similar, so here the "deadly part" is the difference.

Still very odd with your kites Supa - why they behave so awkward ? (what type is it ?)

Do you have it on video - your kites selflaunching and shooting through the window by itself each time, when deep in the window, f.ex if you walk upwind, you say ?

We have never seen anything like that here :roll:

8) Peter


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 Post subject: Re: Self Launch Anchor Technique Problem
PostPosted: Thu Oct 17, 2013 10:31 pm 
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To get back to the O.P. question:

I start and land with an anchor almost every single time I am out, no matter how many we are at a spot now.

Of course, if someone is close, they grab the kite - but only after having positioned so I can launch again from the anchor, so it really does not matter if there is someone or not (when landing).

Having done this since 2005-6 when the first SLE kites came.

With +150 sessions per year, each with numerous launch and landings, say around total 4000 times since then - this can easily get up around 2000 self launches/landings if we say that you are priviledged and have someone help you half of the time.

Out of these maybe 2000 launches, I've had 2 where the kite went up :(

In both of the 2 cases, I was in a hurry to get out, and havent checked lines properly.


1. Kite on its side - everything looked right - and I walked to the bar.
Kite started up quite fast, and ripped the stake up, and another kiter and I ran to the kite and no harm done.

I think that I might have had a bridle snag around the trailing edge corner of the kite, and too eager to get out so I did not notice :roll:


2. Kite on its side - everything looked right - and I walked to the bar.
Kite started rising very slowly - and with low force, but because it was close to 12 o'clock, it ripped the stake out and started drifting 75 meters before it landed on some wooden fence.

No harm done to the kite here either (but it could have been ripped to pieces, so pure luck).
I think I have had a little front line snag either at the V, or at the front bridle pulley (but most likely at the V, as I always look at the pulleys).


In case #2 it would have been easy to recover if you had a helper.

In case #1 I am happy that it was a self launch - so it was just the kite that went away, and I was not hooked into the kite :thumb:

Could have been REALLY bad if you were hooked in - and sometimes even experienced helpers oversee a bridle or line snag - no matter what you say or think :roll:


I've had a few light wind launches, where the kite fell on its nose - but thats just a #¤%&" because you have to walk back (or do a slide launch), and not dangerous for you or your kite.

Two times in gusty conditions because of obstackles in front - the kite fell on its tail.

It just tumbles over one or several times then and end up LE down, downwind, and thats it.

Does not hot launch, thats for sure....

In one case there were bushes downwind, so could've been hard on the kite - but the kite was lucky again.


Regarding depower trim - it does not matter whether depowered or not, normally, and I just leave it where the trim was from last session.

Because the bar is all the way out, it is typically more important to trim the power a bit up, or FULLY up, so the kite dont fall on its nose, or flapping too much.


The SLE kites I've been using in these years, are all extremely stable when on their side :rollgrin:

I never run my hand on the upper frontline either - it is not necessary if your lines are okay.

And in these two cases where they were not - I prefer NOT to be hooked in, so it is only the kite and not me that might be "destroyed" (erased) :roll:


I've had a bigger number of slide launches go bad (and seen many too), which is REALLY dangerous, because in case of a line snag (VERY likely on the upper side because of the kite position and you can not see anything), the kite goes up okay at first - and then continues into the power zone and you can not stop this even with bar fully pulled the other way.

Usually, when the kite hits the ground, the TE line snag dissapears (easy to see when kite dead downwind), and I can just launch the kite now.

The problem here is, that you will typically not be able to activate the QR in time - so much safer to use an anchor instead :naughty:

So I think your lines or bar have been snagged somehow - and be happy that it was not you but only your kite that got hurt donohu90 :rollgrin:

8) Peter


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 Post subject: Re: Self Launch Anchor Technique Problem
PostPosted: Thu Oct 17, 2013 10:45 pm 
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around here there is none doing that tether launch stuff

never saw it real life

guess some of the older guys may know how to do it. but if they know they don´t use it anymore

in any case our conditions don´t favor much running the risk of having a loose kite flying down-wind by itself, most of the times there are people ~around

from what i´m reading not convinced, lot´s of hassle and i like to keep my kite as i keep my girls - under control. lol

self launch just seems simpler


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 Post subject: Re: Self Launch Anchor Technique Problem
PostPosted: Thu Oct 17, 2013 11:08 pm 
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peter u r upwind kite but down wind tether. thanks to angular momentum it aims right at you after I dodged that one inch steel pole I understood it


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 Post subject: Re: Self Launch Anchor Technique Problem
PostPosted: Fri Oct 18, 2013 12:13 am 
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Peter_Frank wrote:
edt wrote:
...
Most tether launchers have never had an angry kite pick up a 1 inch thick steel post and hurl it at them at 25 knots so they tend to underestimate the dangers.

As a kiter gains experience they learn other techniques like setting the kite at the edge of the beach with some sand on it swimming out with the bar unwinding it as you go and then dragging the kite into the water for a water launch.
...


I completely disagree, almost with everything here edt !

...

Having had an angry kite hurl a steel post towards them ?
Simply NOT possible in any way...
When you put the kite on its side, and walk towards the bar - then NO MATTER WHAT IS WRONG - your kite will only pull the anchor up and rip it downwind - NEVER towards you.
This very thing is what can save your life - as it is only the kite that might get destroyed, not yourself :naughty:

...

Maybe just me, but I prefer losing my kite, over losing my life :roll:

...

8) Peter

I'm going with Peter on This one ; here's Why :

The ONLY way that steel-post is going to come "AT YOU" is if your doing a Tethered ((((HOT)))) launch, with
the kite Directly Down-wind of your tether point ; and NOBODY in there right mind would do that (.)
And as Peter said : "Simply NOT possible in any way..." unless you have a Serious case of :
Stupid !!

Now the part about , " losing my kite, over losing my life" ; NO Reason for That to happen either, if :
(you take the extra 10 seconds to hook-up a safety to a different attachment point, or car bumper).

I sold a 15M Ozone sport, to a buddy ; he Lost it to a thorn-tree at 6-mile the second day he owned it.
After that, we both started using a safety cord, and it Saved both our prospective kites on a few occasions.
It was an Expensive lesson, (for Him).

As far as that sand launch thing goes ... NOT at 6-mile, will you be doing That !!

Tiago1973 wrote:
around here there is none doing that tether launch stuff

never saw it real life

guess some of the older guys may know how to do it. but if they know they don´t use it anymore

in any case our conditions don´t favor much running the risk of having a loose kite flying down-wind by itself, most of the times there are people ~around

...


It's Nice you have back-up friends to help.
On a crowded (week-day) at Mohave, there
might be 3 other kiters ; almost a guarantee they'll ALL be out Riding when i show-up.
SO
Now What-Ya gonna do my friend ? Not Kite ? Sorry, i'm NOT that Passive !!!

As far as the a Loose kite flying down the beach goes ; i covered that above, with the safety
leash attachment to a different anchor point.
NOT possible if you take the extra 10 seconds.

Bille


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 Post subject: Re: Self Launch Anchor Technique Problem
PostPosted: Fri Oct 18, 2013 12:21 am 
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edt wrote:
peter u r upwind kite but down wind tether. thanks to angular momentum it aims right at you after I dodged that one inch steel pole I understood it


I Don't get it ; please draw a picture. I don't see How this
is possible ?
The tether AND the kite are exactly 90deg to the wind direction ; with
your lines in-between.

The kite will Need to go down wind of it's launch point before the tether
gets an unusual amount of pressure ; when that happens the tether goes
with the kite -------------------------------------------------------down-wind.

BTW, i Never use a steel pole to tether ; if my Van can't be used then i use
a duffel-bag full of sand, (about 100Lb worth). It's WAY safer than a fixed object
because it sides and gives the pressure of the kite a way to release.

When using a duffel-bag the safety can be attached to it also if the cord to the
chicken loop has a fuse of a lower breaking strength than the weight of the
duffel-bag.

Bille


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 Post subject: Re: Self Launch Anchor Technique Problem
PostPosted: Fri Oct 18, 2013 1:07 am 
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well i dunno the physics but it shot right at me, maybe it pendulumed or maybe the kite looped not striaght downwind but to the side even if it misses me, it can spear a bystander pretty far away.


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 Post subject: Re: Self Launch Anchor Technique Problem
PostPosted: Fri Oct 18, 2013 1:50 am 
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Peter_Frank wrote:

Still very odd with your kites Supa - why they behave so awkward ? (what type is it ?)

Do you have it on video - your kites selflaunching and shooting through the window by itself each time, when deep in the window, f.ex if you walk upwind, you say ?



What are you talking about....
...those were just "examples" i wrote previously of reasons a kite would self launch itself

Even happened to 14Toeside in his post...kite just took off when he was about to hook in
So it does happen :wink:

My kites behave perfectly :thumb:
Never had one self launch by itself.....that's because i do not anchor to launch

I did do it for a little while to see what it was all about.....but not necessary at my wide sandy beach
Sand is everywhere...zero rocks...so i bring empty sandbag to beach...fill it with sand...launch with it

No folding of wingtip....just drape the 30 lbs sandbag.....in the following way... over LE near wingtip

20lbs of the bag is on the beach...10lbs is on top of LE.....nothing goes inside the kite
Because of that set-up the bag releases just right when the moment arrives to launch

Kite is on it's back with trailing edge totally parallel to the wind flow
Similar to the way you would launch a foil / ram air in the wind window....parallel to wind flow

I just position myself at a 45 degrees angle upwind of trailing edge and launch away
The LE near wingtip just slides right off from under the 10 lbs weight of the sandbag as kite rises

Not a pissing contest Peter but honestly....
..... i have self launched way more than you in the last 14.5 years...that i am sure of
Ride19-12-10-8-6-5m2... from 7kn to 37 kn....year round...self launch 99% of time..avg 3-4 days/wk

It takes consistency....discipline...precision...to have had no failed self launch yet with any kites

So IMO :wink: ...my method works real good for me...don't you think

No problem with my technique


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