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 Post subject: Re: North Evo 2013 spare parts?
PostPosted: Wed Oct 23, 2013 11:11 pm 
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Whoa. Wish I'd seen this thread before it started devolving. I think I know the little rubber wrapping around the sleeving at the end of the lines that you're talking about. It looks a bit like a thick shrink-wrapping to keep the double-backed/sleeved end of the line from either snagging or from pulling apart. I've never seen an issue with that clear coating chafing/snapping the line, but I will admit that Caesar's looks interesting because the lines are so new and it snapped right at the juncture with the sleeving... In general I very rarely see snapped lines get approved for warranty as they are considered a wear item (use any lines for long enough and they will snap, and usually the first spot to snap is within a couple inches of the far end of the lines, unless they snag or wear somewhere else, for example where they cross when you loop the kite). That being said, if a line is fairly new and it snaps right where it connects to the sleeving, it is probably worth at least having the retailer/distributor inspect it.

I'll see if I can find out if there's any other reason for the clear rubber protection around the sleeving than I mentioned above, but again, I wouldn't stress about it... I have seen dozens if not hundreds of demo bars/lines that all have that sleeving and have all been beaten to crap doing countless demos and I've never seen a problem with them. Beyond that, we've had tens if not hundreds of thousands of bars go out over the years, all with that wrapping, and again, this is the first I've heard this complaint, so don't go and inspect your bars and start freaking out. If you do see some sort of problem feel free to take it to your retailer or PM me with details.

-Dan


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 Post subject: Re: North Evo 2013 spare parts?
PostPosted: Wed Oct 23, 2013 11:32 pm 
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The plastic sleeve is not the problem, but also probably not needed if the sleeves are sewn right.
I have two linesets with the clear sleeve pieces and no problems with them at all, but the linesets are better line.
Those white linesets with the color flecks were not very good, they were supplied to many kite companies for 2-3 years.
The weave was too open so they snagged on everything, they stretched like crazy and wore easily.
I had a North bar from 2009 and a North bar from 2011 that both had these flecked lines.
Thankfully, kite companies are getting better linesets supplied to them again in 2012/2013/2014.
I think the bungy thing is just an idea that could/should be eliminated, but my 2011 Rebel 8M that had them was a cracking good kite...if I could stand to fly with five lines. :thumb:


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 Post subject: Re: North Evo 2013 spare parts?
PostPosted: Wed Oct 23, 2013 11:56 pm 
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Thanks for the info Dan.
Have you heard any feed back on the 2014 north Evo?


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 Post subject: Re: North Evo 2013 spare parts?
PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 12:25 am 
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Oldnbroken-

I know another brand had problems with their "flecked" lines stretching several years ago. However, our lines are sourced from Teufelberger, a German climbing/sailing/paragliding rope/line manufacturer. We were the first to come out with the 'flecked' lines several years ago, and though many other brands now offer similar looking lines I tend to think they are sourced elsewhere and may not offer all the advantages that our lines do. I'm not saying that they are necessarily worse, but just because they look the same does not mean that they are the same.

In spite of your experience with our lines I've heard from retailers (who mostly stock many brands) that our lines are the best out there in terms of stretch resistance and longevity. I know that we work with Teufelberger to consistently improve the lines we use... Last year we introduced a new version of our lines that improved breaking strength and abrasion resistance while decreasing stretch, and the lines previous to that (also 'flecked') were pretty stretch/abrasion resistant to begin with.

However I agree with you on the bungy thing... In my opinion they cause more confusion than they do good. But Ken designs the best kites in the world and he insists on the bungees.

Coop-

Not sure what you're looking for in terms of feedback on the 2014 Evo... Long story short, it is more freeride oriented instead of freestyle/freeride/all-around do everything. If you want a kite for unhooking plus waves plus freeride (which is what the older Evo was) you'll be better served by the 2014 Dice. If you liked the older Evos for straight-up hooked-in freeride, then you'll be stoked with the 2014 Evo.

-Dan


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 Post subject: Re: North Evo 2013 spare parts?
PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 12:34 am 
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Thanks Dan just what I wanted to hear as I am on the Fuse. In other words the Fuse has been rebadged Evo?
Cheers


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 Post subject: Re: North Evo 2013 spare parts?
PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 12:37 am 
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Dimitri M wrote:
But like I said before no body is perfect.


Very mature of you Dimitri to be joining a conversation about issues with North equipment - you might actually learn something from Dan's response. And you're absolutely right - nobody's perfect, everybody get their share of issues related to wear&tear, as well as bad QC and bad design decisions. What, however, differentiates good companies from bad ones, is their ability to admit mistakes and to work on solutions. Which - clearly - isn't your company's case. So like I've said, use the occasion and learn, you don't have to be perfect to succeed.


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 Post subject: Re: North Evo 2013 spare parts?
PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 1:10 am 
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Dan-at-North wrote:
Oldnbroken-

I know another brand had problems with their "flecked" lines stretching several years ago. However, our lines are sourced from Teufelberger, a German climbing/sailing/paragliding rope/line manufacturer. We were the first to come out with the 'flecked' lines several years ago, and though many other brands now offer similar looking lines I tend to think they are sourced elsewhere and may not offer all the advantages that our lines do. I'm not saying that they are necessarily worse, but just because they look the same does not mean that they are the same.

In spite of your experience with our lines I've heard from retailers (who mostly stock many brands) that our lines are the best out there in terms of stretch resistance and longevity. I know that we work with Teufelberger to consistently improve the lines we use... Last year we introduced a new version of our lines that improved breaking strength and abrasion resistance while decreasing stretch, and the lines previous to that (also 'flecked') were pretty stretch/abrasion resistant to begin with.

However I agree with you on the bungy thing... In my opinion they cause more confusion than they do good. But Ken designs the best kites in the world and he insists on the bungees.

-Dan
Dan- I got the two North bars used, so stretch was not an issue.
But they were the worst linesets I had gotten for years, I promise.
Really loose weave so they snagged on everything and wore from abrasion pretty quickly.
I'm still using very good linesets that came with bars from 2010 Blade, 2010 Epic, 2011 Ocean Rodeo and a really old lineset from a Flexifoil kite I had.
All have nice tight weave and much better abrasion resistance.
All solid colors, no flecked lines.
I got flecked lines from another company that were the same weave pattern, I never used them.


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 Post subject: Re: North Evo 2013 spare parts?
PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 1:32 am 
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Dan-at-North wrote:
Whoa. Wish I'd seen this thread before it started devolving. I think I know the little rubber wrapping around the sleeving at the end of the lines that you're talking about. It looks a bit like a thick shrink-wrapping to keep the double-backed/sleeved end of the line from either snagging or from pulling apart. I've never seen an issue with that clear coating chafing/snapping the line, but I will admit that Caesar's looks interesting because the lines are so new and it snapped right at the juncture with the sleeving... In general I very rarely see snapped lines get approved for warranty as they are considered a wear item (use any lines for long enough and they will snap, and usually the first spot to snap is within a couple inches of the far end of the lines, unless they snag or wear somewhere else, for example where they cross when you loop the kite). That being said, if a line is fairly new and it snaps right where it connects to the sleeving, it is probably worth at least having the retailer/distributor inspect it.

I'll see if I can find out if there's any other reason for the clear rubber protection around the sleeving than I mentioned above, but again, I wouldn't stress about it... I have seen dozens if not hundreds of demo bars/lines that all have that sleeving and have all been beaten to crap doing countless demos and I've never seen a problem with them. Beyond that, we've had tens if not hundreds of thousands of bars go out over the years, all with that wrapping, and again, this is the first I've heard this complaint, so don't go and inspect your bars and start freaking out. If you do see some sort of problem feel free to take it to your retailer or PM me with details.

-Dan


Hi Dan,

I did not ask for warranty since things can break and as long as a company responds in a proper manner and looks into the issue to resolve it, I'm happy with that. If more things break and the company I'm dealing with responds stupidly, pushing away all their responsibility despite it is their fault/ bad workmanship/ bad design (as the owner of Epic kites did), than I will ask for replacement.

North was very generous to me. When I asked if I can fit the Micro loop into the 2013 bar system, I was told yes. Then it did not fit because of different holes in the iron heart. I wrote that to them and asked how to resolve it. As a result they sent me a 2012 iron heart and a new CL as well because of a swivel problem.

I just ordered 2 new 2012er North bars before you run out of stock. I hope my kite store will find some. The 2012 kite bars are the last ones where the micro loop fits onto.

Regarding that plastic shrink hose- it was a production fault I believe. I have attached a zoom of that photo (you need to maximize it). On the line which broke, the plastic shrink hose went right over the flying line (about 5mm) while the other one ends at the thick stitched sleeve (and I believe that's where it should end). If that plastic shrink hose ends on top of the line, then it will cause a breakage earlier or later because the line will rub against the sharp plastic shrink hose. Do you agree?
You might want to forward this tread to your company so they can learn from it.

Cheers
Caesar 8)

Attachment:
Fuse-Line-Zoom.jpg
Fuse-Line-Zoom.jpg [ 214.24 KIB | Viewed 119 times ]


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 Post subject: Re: North Evo 2013 spare parts?
PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 1:57 am 
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Here are two pics I just snapped of the sleeves and lines on a 2010 Blade bar and on a 2010 Epic bar.
Notice how nice and tight the weave of the lines are?...good linesets.
The last pic is of the 4G Epic lines.
The sleeves are there to provide bend relief at the point that most linesets wear the most.
In this case, the sleeves are doing their job.
I used to do this 30 years ago, in quantities of 5-600,000, on guitar cables and microphone cables.
There are several plastics used for shrink tubing, and none of it should he hard and cutting or abrading the lines, as you describe Caesar.
Don't know exactly what these sleeves sitting on my kitchen counter are made of, but they are soft and bendable as they should be.


Attachments:
Epic1.JPG
Epic1.JPG [ 2.7 MIB | Viewed 100 times ]
Blade1.JPG
Blade1.JPG [ 2.62 MIB | Viewed 100 times ]
2014 Epic1.jpg
2014 Epic1.jpg [ 234.43 KIB | Viewed 100 times ]


Last edited by Oldnbroken on Thu Oct 24, 2013 2:28 am, edited 2 times in total.
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 Post subject: Re: North Evo 2013 spare parts?
PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 2:01 am 
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Caesar how do you find the micro loop on the Fuse?


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