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 Post subject: Re: Wave Kite blues
PostPosted: Tue Dec 10, 2013 4:04 pm 
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The problem with the wave kites is that they are designed for Hawaii thus offshore conditions. They are gutless and fly at the edge of the window all for a reason. But for onshore conditions we need a kite that flies deep in the window, another words sits back but has upwind ability at the same time. Heavier riders want grunt in my case I describe what I need as power on demand. The kites I liked in the past were Airush Vapors 1 2 3 and X , Ocean Rodeo Cypher. As it was mentioned new Airush Lithiums but I haven't tried. The problem remains that 90% of kites are designed for Hawaii because of where the team riders are and marketing such as videos magazine shots etc. If you ride onshore you need to do a lot of research and product is very scarce.


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 Post subject: Re: Wave Kite blues
PostPosted: Tue Dec 10, 2013 6:15 pm 
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offshore example when you go down the wave you chase the kite which has to go upwind fast without affecting your ability to ride thus gutless upwind kite works.

Image

onshore conditions example if you start riding down the wave but the kite still wants to go upwind, the lines get slack and you loose control over the kite. Solution a fast axial turning more powerful kite that sits back but at the same time has the upwind ability to get you out of a brake zone and back into action.


Last edited by marlboroughman on Tue Dec 10, 2013 6:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Wave Kite blues
PostPosted: Tue Dec 10, 2013 6:38 pm 
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marlboroughman wrote:
Image


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. Solution a fast turning more powerful kite that sits back but at the same time has the upwind ability to get you out of a brake zone and back into action.



Oxymoron


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 Post subject: Re: Wave Kite blues
PostPosted: Tue Dec 10, 2013 6:50 pm 
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All I know about you is that you just wasted a lot of forum space to call me oxymoron which is dumb indeed.


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 Post subject: Re: Wave Kite blues
PostPosted: Tue Dec 10, 2013 7:07 pm 
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I think he was referring to the description below the pic of Dimitri in Hatteras.
Not that I agree, because there are some kites that will.
But I agree, most designers are designing wave kites for what would be considered good wave conditions.
Those two pictures look so completely different, it looks like two different activities.
When people talk about wave conditions, it is sometimes hard for one person to understand what the other is referring to.


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 Post subject: Re: Wave Kite blues
PostPosted: Tue Dec 10, 2013 9:02 pm 
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marlboroughman wrote:
The problem with the wave kites is that they are designed for Hawaii thus offshore conditions. They are gutless and fly at the edge of the window all for a reason. But for onshore conditions we need a kite that flies deep in the window, another words sits back but has upwind ability at the same time. Heavier riders want grunt in my case I describe what I need as power on demand. The kites I liked in the past were Airush Vapors 1 2 3 and X , Ocean Rodeo Cypher. As it was mentioned new Airush Lithiums but I haven't tried. The problem remains that 90% of kites are designed for Hawaii because of where the team riders are and marketing such as videos magazine shots etc. If you ride onshore you need to do a lot of research and product is very scarce.


I completely disagree with this :o

Almost every single kite is designed for "the masses", and NOT for perfect and side-offshore conditions :thumb:

Have been like that for ages, as it is the only kite type that can sell, and deliver a sane business.

Noone buys kites based on PR (well, only a fraction, out of the totals) - so the kites has to suit us as customers.

I've never seen the majority of kites being designed for "hawaii" - on the contrary, they are suited perfectly for "most" riders around the world IMO :rollgrin:


Regarding sideon typical conditions - here a kite that has very low power (= high windrange), and turns and fly fast to the edge, is by far superior and a perfect fit.

Upwind ability is far better with this very type of kite (not too low AR, a faster profile), compared to the "fat" kites.


If sideshore, some wants a kite that sits deeper and drifts instead (lower AR) - depending on what "type" you are as a rider.
And this is why these two types of wavekites are "dominant".

But having a kite that sits deep in the window, in onshore conditions ?
Is a nightmare IMO, and will pull you off your line, or even worse, off your edge whenever you DONT want it :(

In perfect sideoff conditions, a kite that sits deep, and with very low power - is the best and often used.


Exactly the opposite of what you want, almost every single point ?


So can only say that I disagree, and understand exactly why the offered kites today, are as they are - and offer a wide range of choice for what I describe, no matter what type you want of the two above.

8) Peter


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 Post subject: Re: Wave Kite blues
PostPosted: Tue Dec 10, 2013 9:11 pm 
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Disclaimer the following discussion is for people who actually ride waves meaning riding front side going down the wave bottom turning and going off the lip it is not intended for people who just happen to be skipping along where the waves are. Activities in the pictures are the same but the wind directions in relation to the wave are different. The guy in the first picture is going down the wave with the kite charging upwind where us in the second picture Dimitri is going up the wave with the kite charging upwind completely different situation.
It gets worse for Dimitri if he turns down the wave where he will have to attempt to drift the kite where us in the first picture the rider will bottom turn and drift the kite going up the wave. Here lies the problem when you are really really want to ride the waves in onshore conditions you drift the kite when you want to go full speed down wind and in the process overriding the kite. So if you are on a steep fast moving wave you have to work the kite, simple drifting doesn't cut it or on the other hand if you are on a smaller slow moving wave you have to get some power from the kite to stay on it. I am telling you for the last time you need the kite that sits back turns with power axially but allows you to point upwind at the same time.


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 Post subject: Re: Wave Kite blues
PostPosted: Wed Dec 11, 2013 2:16 pm 
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http://www.thefreedictionary.com/oxymoron

A kite that sits back in the window but goes up wind well.


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 Post subject: Re: Wave Kite blues
PostPosted: Wed Dec 11, 2013 3:14 pm 
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I own two and they go upwind not only well but extremely well with low to medium bar pressure. Airush Vapor III and OR Cypher. I am told Airush Lithiums are the same. The bonus is these kites are very good for kiteloops. You control the angle of the kite so when you let the bar out the kite goes upwind. The difference with these kites is that when you bring the bar in more they will not backstall, they just keep on moving sometimes straight down from you. I adjust my back lines so the kite is on the verge of backstalling but never does. Very useful for kiteloops when you bring the bar all the way in with the kite chocked the loops are so gentle you can hold the bar close and still not feel the pressure like the loop never happened. Also they jump after you bring the kite back only to twelve which is very useful because you can initiate kiteloops right away whereas with the forward flying kites you have to bring them from way the hell forward to way the hell back and again back to twelve and than loop. Forward flying kites suck for onshore wave and loops big time. I've been flying my vapors on five lines in waves without incident because I am so confident in the kite following me when I go down the wave whereas with forward flying kite you get dumped into your lines and it doesn't really matter how many, you are fucked.


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 Post subject: Re: Wave Kite blues
PostPosted: Wed Dec 11, 2013 3:32 pm 
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fdvj wrote:
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/oxymoron

A kite that sits back in the window but goes up wind well.


:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


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