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 Post subject: Open source kite fatality and critical injury database.
PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2013 6:29 am 
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Joined: Fri Sep 11, 2009 3:15 am
Posts: 1510
Rick I does an awesome job with safety updates. This, however, is a free open source database to be used for purpose of keeping kiters safer with condensed knowledge.

eg 62.5% of critical injuries and fatalities collected so far have occurred on land.

Edits / additions welcome, I started it, but this is everyone's now to update/edit/analyze. If Rick I wants to sell some of his data to add to this format I will put up $100 to start with cos i know even this below has taken quite some time.. or a paypal name...

___________________________________________________________________
cvs file below
___________________________________________________________________

Fatal / Critical,Date,Country,Location,Months Riding,Windspeed at time (Knots),"Final position"" Land /Water",Brief Description,Source
Fatal,28/08/2008,UK,Lancing,,,Land,Struck Rocks,
Fatal,12/12/2008,Mexico,Near LaVenta,24,,Land,Broke Neck on beach,The Oregonian
Fatal,24/11/2007,USA,LAKE KOSHKONONG,,,Water,Found on water,http://www.splashvision.com/Video/13256_Horrible-Kite-Accident.html
Fatal,25/01/2008,Puerto Rico,,,,Water,"Tangled with Equipment, drowned",SurferToday.com
Fatal,2008,USA,Florida,,35,Land,Huricane incident,
Critical,,USA,,,,Land,"Paralysed, HIt Rock",
Critical,,USA,,,,Water,Paralysed - Shallow,
Critical,1/1/2012,UK,Southend,,,Land,Critical injuries,
Critical,1/1/2012,UK,Bournmouth,,,Land,Critical injuries,
Critical,1/1/2012,UK,Bournmouth,,,Land,Critical injuries,
Fatal,1/1/2007,NZ,,12,30,Land,Struck Caravan,
Fatal,28/04/09,France,Bidart,,,Land,Thrown into Parking Lot,
Fatal,1/1/2007,New Caledonia,,,,Water,"Stuck in deathloop, drowned.",
Fatal,8/9/2010,France,,,,Land,"Struck Building, dragging started in sea.",
Fatal,1/1/2011,France,,,,Water,"Student stuck with lines under instructor boat, drowned.",
Fatal,14/07/11,France,,0,,Water,Hit road then building@ launch,
Fatal,,Japan,,,,Land,Hit trees,
Fatal,1/1/2010,US,Maui,48,,Water,"Unknown, found on water without kite",
Fatal,14/5/13,Canada,,36,,Land,Hit Rocks,
Fatal,11/8/2013,Canada,,,,Water,"Stuck in deathloop, drowned.",
Fatal,23/9/13,Australia,,120,,Land,Hit tree/sign at landing,
Fatal,7/10/2013,USA,NYC,,,Land,Hit rock Seawall,
Fatal,1/1/2013,Netherlands,,,,Land,Hit wooden pole at launch,


{ SHARE_ON_FACEBOOK } { SHARE_ON_TWITTER } { SHARE_ON_ORKUT } { SHARE_ON_DIGG } { SHARE_ON_MYSPACE } { SHARE_ON_DELICIOUS }
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 Post subject: Re: Open source kite fatality and critical injury database.
PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2013 7:03 am 
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Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2011 2:54 am
Posts: 118
Addition:

Fatal, 5/23/2010, USA, Ocean Beach San Francisco, lines wrapped around legs (drowned?)


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 Post subject: Re: Open source kite fatality and critical injury database.
PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2013 8:01 am 
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Joined: Sat Aug 29, 2009 11:25 pm
Posts: 2691
Location: The Naki
I guy in florida died shark attack. 2012 I think
there was another shark death in the pacific numea/Tahiti??

A landboarder in nelson nz. death lofted hit a tree. 2010? maybe.


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 Post subject: Re: Open source kite fatality and critical injury database.
PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2013 8:53 am 
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Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2002 1:00 am
Posts: 8308
Location: Florida
Not only are your comments about payment highly insulting they show gross ignorance of all the free resources on this site alone and hundreds, thousands of hours invested over all this time at no charge with the goal of preserving safety and access. Throw in inane troll attacks curiously with broad support for entertainment value throughout much of this and it is fairly miraculous it ever happened in the first place. Some things need to be done regardless of distractions and abuse however. Your "check" is overdue and by many years but don't worry about it as I am not waiting for one, nor do I expect one despite your short sighted comment.

One liners such as you list below can be interesting but how much accurate and useful information can you really get out of them to help kiters to stay safe? Accidents and life can be complicated, or at least more than you can express in a few words. Tell me how to effectively stay safe flying an airplane, driving a car, sky diving, technical scuba diving, etc. in six words or less?

Lets take: "Fatal,7/10/2013,USA,NYC,,,Land,Hit rock Seawall"

What can we learn from this? Don't have a kite up on land, don't hit rock seawalls?

If you are looking for gross numbers, quantities, that is a different thing. But have a care, such information can work against your sport. Folks looking to shut down or limit kiting access would enjoy using such unqualified information. They have in the past anyway. This is a real problem and threat, how are you going to manage this in your database?


.


Last edited by RickI on Fri Nov 01, 2013 3:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Open source kite fatality and critical injury database.
PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2013 9:56 am 
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Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2002 1:00 am
Posts: 8308
Location: Florida
Edit:

This effort doesn't seem credible or well intended to help anyone in kiting at this time. Quite the opposite in fact. If windsurfers want to keep their sport in the Olympics, play it straight and don't resort to underhanded gambits to try to discredit kiting. Such tactics bring into question the existence of windsurfing in the Olympics on ethical grounds alone.


Last edited by RickI on Fri Nov 01, 2013 3:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Open source kite fatality and critical injury database.
PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2013 10:44 am 
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Joined: Fri Sep 11, 2009 3:15 am
Posts: 1510
RI, take this as positive criticism not an attack - you are still stuck in 2005 with regards to risking access, also your view that each incident requires multiple paragraphs of info really does not help many of the generation that spend about 1.6seconds per facebook post, skimread and disregard long articles- ie many of the new generation of kiters.

Did you ever get paid to do consultancy work with regards to kiteboarding safety?

airplane - non genuine part in wing failed
driving a car - excessive speed
sky diving - did not pack own chute
technical scuba diving - Failed to check air @ 60m
__________________________________

Goddam off topic hyjackers....

Back to it. Thx for updates, have had awesome feedback. The shark was far north NewCal. Sadly a friend of a friend.


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 Post subject: Re: Open source kite fatality and critical injury database.
PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2013 11:04 am 
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Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2002 1:00 am
Posts: 8308
Location: Florida
I am working to preserve access in two venues this week alone. As often as threats to access come up, it is impossible to be stuck in time, much less eight years in the past.

If kiters try to get what they need in 1.6 seconds and from no other source, then a portion will be injured. It is as simple as that. Kiting injuries cross all ages. The last time I evaluated it, a few years back the average age was 39 for kiting fatalities.

I have been an expert witness in kiting litigation in three cases in the last 12 years. Everything you read online and in magazines that I have prepared, thousands of posts, have been prepared and distributed for free in the interest of promoting kiting safety and sustainability.

How are you going to protect the sport from misuse of your database?

I will add that without further fact checking, given the sources you list, it will include some serious inaccuracies from long personal experience. There are no easy outs in this work, not for a meaningful and accurate outcome. You end up writing fiction.

.


Last edited by RickI on Fri Nov 01, 2013 3:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Open source kite fatality and critical injury database.
PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2013 11:50 am 
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Joined: Fri Sep 11, 2009 3:15 am
Posts: 1510
From your 3000 words posted above I sum it up as:

don't do it because of access (i presume that is what you mean)
because of inaccurate data collection (people are not stupid)
because info too condensed

I simply don't agree with you on these points.

It will be very useful for my kiteboarding friends to learn from. People are slightly more clever than you give them credit for in my experience. Ideas grow and evolve. Anyone can extend database with as much info as they like and also people can produce condensed versions if they wish - user chooses - open source.

Keep your data, that is fine, this will grow quickly no doubt. There are people keen to see an overview, not necessarily trawl through 100s of pages. They might even be encouraged to find out more details/ learn more about incidents.

You are going to have to accept that this database is happening and will grow with more and more accurate information using the collective power of open source.


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 Post subject: Re: Open source kite fatality and critical injury database.
PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2013 12:26 pm 
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Joined: Wed Feb 22, 2012 9:09 pm
Posts: 266
I think it would be a good resource but do agree with the need for more details. When I was out yesterday on a 12m the wind really picked up for a time to force 7 . Based on the information about the recent tragedy in Australia I decided not to go into the beach and land my kite In case it picked up more and was ready to pull my safety on the water instead. Managed to ride it out on the water which was a lot safer. Before i read people's comments my instinct would have been to rush to the beach and land.


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 Post subject: Re: Open source kite fatality and critical injury database.
PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2013 12:52 pm 
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Joined: Fri Sep 11, 2009 3:15 am
Posts: 1510
That is awesome. Open to adding more details - it's open source - link to best source of info can be added in. Back in the day ditching in the water was common place. Nowdays more people seem to be worried about sandy wet kites...

csv file updated - copy and past into text document - import into spreadsheet
_______________

Outcome,Date,Country,Location,Monthsriding,knots,Land/Water,Summary,Source
Fatal,23/9/13,Australia,xxxxxxx,120,xx,Land,Hit tree/sign at landing,
Fatal,14/5/13,Canada,xxxxxxx,36,xx,Land,Hit Rocks,
Fatal,11/8/2013,Canada,xxxxxxx,xx,xx,Water,"Stuck in deathloop, drowned.",
Fatal,28/04/09,France,Bidart,xx,xx,Land,Thrown into Parking Lot,
Fatal,8/9/2010,France,xxxxxxx,xx,xx,Land,"Struck Building, dragging started in sea.",
Fatal,9/11/2010,France,Saint-Jean-de-Luz,xx,xx,Land,Hit pier then building,http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1327705/Kite-surfer-28-dies-gale-drags-100mph-beach-drops-50ft.html
Fatal,1/1/2011,France,xxxxxxx,xx,xx,Water,"Student stuck with lines under instructor boat, drowned.",
Fatal,14/07/11,France,xxxxxxx,0,xx,Water,Hit road then building@ launch,
Fatal,,Japan,xxxxxxx,xx,xx,Land,Hit trees,
Fatal,12/12/2008,Mexico,Near LaVenta,24,xx,Land,Broke Neck on beach,The Oregonian
Fatal,1/1/2013,Netherlands,xxxxxxx,xx,xx,Land,Hit wooden pole at launch,
Fatal,1/1/2007,New Caledonia,xxxxxxx,xx,xx,Water,"Stuck in deathloop, drowned.",
Fatal,1/1/2007,NZ,xxxxxxx,12,30,Land,Struck Caravan,
Fatal,25/01/2008,Puerto Rico,xxxxxxx,xx,xx,Water,"Tangled with Equipment, drowned",SurferToday.com
Fatal,28/08/2008,UK,Lancing,xx,xx,Land,Struck Rocks,
Critical,1/1/2012,UK,Southend,xx,xx,Land,Critical injuries,
Critical,1/1/2012,UK,Bournmouth,xx,xx,Land,Critical injuries,
Critical,1/1/2012,UK,Bournmouth,xx,xx,Land,Critical injuries,
Fatal,1/1/2010,USA,Maui,48,xx,Water,"Unknown, found on water without kite",
Fatal,5/2/2010,USA,Forida,xx,xx,Water,Shark attack,
Fatal,24/11/2007,USA,LAKE KOSHKONONG,xx,xx,Water,Found on water,http://www.splashvision.com/Video/13256_Horrible-Kite-Accident.html
Fatal,19/8/2008,USA,Florida,xx,35,Land,Huricane incident,http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/2586182/Surfer-blown-into-wall-during-tropical-storm.html
Critical,1/1/2011,USA,xxxxxxx,xx,xx,Land,"Paralysed, HIt Rock",
Critical,1/12010,USA,xxxxxxx,xx,xx,Water,Paralysed - Shallow,
Fatal,23/5/2010,USA,San Francisco,xx,xx,,,http://sfappeal.com/2010/05/kite-surfer-at-ocean-beach-hospitalized-after-rescue-buy-park-rangers/
Fatal,7/10/2013,USA,NYC,xx,xx,Land,Hit rock Seawall,
Fatal,23/5/11,New Caledonia,Koumac village,xx,xx,Water,Shark attack,http://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=10727525


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