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 Post subject: Re: Open source kite fatality and critical injury database.
PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2013 9:12 pm 
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There are going to be different opinions..... It's open source, it's not mine to tell others what to do. I simply initiated the idea, most contributions so far are not mine.You dont need an hons degree studying stats to offer good opinion/ advice to kitesurfers based on this. (I have one for good measure though)


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 Post subject: Re: Open source kite fatality and critical injury database.
PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2013 9:34 pm 
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_______________________
Open source data. csv file comma delimited , paste below into text document file into spreadsheet
_______________________

Open source constantly updated version: 1/11/13
Fatal/Critical,date,Gender,Age,Country,Location,Experience (hours),Windspeedknt,Kite/size,Land/Water,Summary,Sources
Fatal,23/9/13,xxxx,xx,Australia,xxxxxxx,120,xx,xxxxxx,Land,Hit tree/sign at landing,xxxxxx
Fatal,14/5/13,xxxx,xx,Canada,xxxxxxx,36,xx,xxxxxx,Land,Hit Rocks,xxxxxx
Fatal,11/8/2013,xxxx,xx,Canada,xxxxxxx,xx,xx,xxxxxx,Water,"Stuck in deathloop, drowned.",xxxxxx
Fatal,28/04/09,xxxx,xx,France,Bidart,xx,xx,xxxxxx,Land,Thrown into Parking Lot,xxxxxx
Fatal,8/9/2010,xxxx,xx,France,xxxxxxx,xx,xx,xxxxxx,Land,"Struck Building, dragging started in sea.",
Fatal,9/11/2010,xxxx,xx,France,Saint-Jean-de-Luz,xx,xx,xxxxxx,Land,Hit pier then building,http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1327705/Kite-surfer-28-dies-gale-drags-100mph-beach-drops-50ft.html
Fatal,1/1/2011,xxxx,xx,France,xxxxxxx,xx,xx,xxxxxx,Water,"Student stuck with lines under instructor boat, drowned.",xxxxxx
Fatal,14/07/11,xxxx,xx,France,xxxxxxx,0,xx,xxxxxx,Water,Hit road then building@ launch,xxxxxx
Fatal,,xxxx,xx,Japan,xxxxxxx,xx,xx,xxxxxx,Land,Hit trees,xxxxxx
Fatal,12/12/2008,xxxx,xx,Mexico,Near LaVenta,24,xx,xxxxxx,Land,Broke Neck on beach,The Oregonian
Fatal,1/1/2013,xxxx,xx,Netherlands,xxxxxxx,xx,xx,xxxxxx,Land,Hit wooden pole at launch,xxxxxx
Fatal,1/1/2007,xxxx,xx,New Caledonia,xxxxxxx,xx,xx,xxxxxx,Water,"Stuck in deathloop, drowned.",xxxxxx
Fatal,1/1/2007,xxxx,xx,NZ,xxxxxxx,12,30,xxxxxx,Land,Struck Caravan,xxxxxx
Fatal,25/01/2008,xxxx,xx,Puerto Rico,xxxxxxx,xx,xx,xxxxxx,Water,"Tangled with Equipment, drowned",SurferToday.com
Fatal,28/08/2008,xxxx,xx,UK,Lancing,xx,xx,xxxxxx,Land,Struck Rocks,xxxxxx
Critical,1/1/2012,xxxx,xx,UK,Southend,xx,xx,xxxxxx,Land,Critical injuries,xxxxxx
Critical,1/1/2012,xxxx,xx,UK,Bournmouth,xx,xx,xxxxxx,Land,Critical injuries,xxxxxx
Critical,1/1/2012,xxxx,xx,UK,Bournmouth,xx,xx,xxxxxx,Land,Critical injuries,xxxxxx
Fatal,1/1/2010,xxxx,xx,USA,Maui,48,xx,xxxxxx,Water,"Unknown, found on water without kite",xxxxxx
Fatal,5/2/2010,xxxx,xx,USA,Forida,xx,xx,xxxxxx,Water,Shark attack,xxxxxx
Fatal,24/11/2007,xxxx,xx,USA,LAKE KOSHKONONG,xx,xx,xxxxxx,Water,Found on water,http://www.splashvision.com/Video/13256_Horrible-Kite-Accident.html
Critical,19/8/2008,xxxx,xx,USA,Florida,xx,35,xxxxxx,Land,Huricane incident,http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/2586182/Surfer-blown-into-wall-during-tropical-storm.html
Critical,1/1/2011,xxxx,xx,USA,xxxxxxx,xx,xx,xxxxxx,Land,"Paralysed, HIt Rock",
Critical,1/12010,xxxx,xx,USA,xxxxxxx,xx,xx,xxxxxx,Water,Paralysed - Shallow,
Fatal,23/5/2010,xxxx,xx,USA,San Francisco,xx,xx,xxxxxx,,,http://sfappeal.com/2010/05/kite-surfer-at-ocean-beach-hospitalized-after-rescue-buy-park-rangers/
Fatal,7/10/2013,xxxx,xx,USA,NYC,xx,xx,xxxxxx,Land,Hit rock Seawall,
Fatal,23/5/11,xxxx,xx,New Caledonia,Koumac village,xx,xx,xxxxxx,Water,Shark attack,http://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=10727525


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 Post subject: Re: Open source kite fatality and critical injury database.
PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2013 9:46 pm 
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Location: Florida
I like the idea of a good relational kiting accident database as I have said. It needs to be accurate, well researched, fact checked, competently administered and sufficiently detailed to do more good than harm. Thank you for resurrecting Kevin.

Edit:

This effort doesn't seem credible or well intended to help anyone in kiting at this time. Quite the opposite in fact. If windsurfers want to keep their sport in the Olympics, play it straight and don't resort to underhanded gambits to try to discredit kiting. Such tactics bring into question the existence of windsurfing in the Olympics on ethical grounds alone.


Last edited by RickI on Fri Nov 01, 2013 3:24 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Open source kite fatality and critical injury database.
PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2013 9:47 pm 
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longwhitecloud wrote:
There are going to be different opinions..... It's open source, it's not mine to tell others what to do. I simply initiated the idea, most contributions so far are not mine.You dont need an hons degree studying stats to offer good opinion/ advice to kitesurfers based on this. (I have one for good measure though)


No its your idea, you started it, and you are maintaining it, I am making you responsible to carry out my wish to keep any incident involving me off this list to respect my friends and family.
Thank you


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 Post subject: Re: Open source kite fatality and critical injury database.
PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2013 10:02 pm 
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Its my initiative certainly, please understand that i will not be and have not been the only person updating it so far. Your opinion is welcome but I don't agree personally, other may or may not...


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 Post subject: Re: Open source kite fatality and critical injury database.
PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2013 10:47 pm 
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Laughingman wrote:
longwhitecloud wrote:
There are going to be different opinions..... It's open source, it's not mine to tell others what to do. I simply initiated the idea, most contributions so far are not mine.You dont need an hons degree studying stats to offer good opinion/ advice to kitesurfers based on this. (I have one for good measure though)[/quote

No its your idea, you started it, and you are maintaining it, I am making you responsible to carry out my wish to keep any incident involving me off this list to respect my friends and family.
Thank you


Laughingman, I agree with everything you wrote with one exception,
out of respect for your friends and particularly your family, I am nominating YOU as being responsible for keeping your name off this list.


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 Post subject: Re: Open source kite fatality and critical injury database.
PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2013 11:08 pm 
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"I like the idea of a good relational kiting accident database as I have said. It needs to be accurate, well researched, fact checked, competently administered and sufficiently detailed to do more good than harm" wikipedia.

I think a current problem is too much detail, this database can reference that detail easily. I think a better idea for source links is maybe tiny urls in the futrue - then the data is still readable raw on one page.

I was concerned by what I read in IKA report on olympic kiteboarding and the distorted view of kiteboarding safety it will give to newcomers (as safe as ANY other sport!), and the lack of consideration for the competitors telling sailing clubs to get kiters involved and that there are "no additional facilities required" - no doubt. For sure part of the inspiration for keeping my kitesurfer friends safe is part of this.

Quote:
"mind set of 'I'm just here to get my sesh in" and "lets keep it under the radar."


Agree, I think this attitude sucks. No one has to get involved but trying to stop people getting involved for reasons above is ridiculous.

It is happening, no one will have central control, its the world we live in today - its great, no conflicts of interest involved. I know someone trying to fight against kiteboarding (olympics)with a similar database - they asked for my help, i dont think their motive is all bad, but if they start spewing crap under pressure (conflicts of interest..ie job) this data will be available to set teh record straight. I would rather kiters jointly and openly had easy access to this info.

I care far more about kiteboarding than it's potential olympic viewing numbers which it is one way it is measured, I care about my kitesurfing friends.

This debate is a good thing indeed and overdue.


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 Post subject: Re: Open source kite fatality and critical injury database.
PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2013 11:43 pm 
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Location: Southwestern Ontario
Johnny Rotten wrote:
Laughingman wrote:
longwhitecloud wrote:
There are going to be different opinions..... It's open source, it's not mine to tell others what to do. I simply initiated the idea, most contributions so far are not mine.You dont need an hons degree studying stats to offer good opinion/ advice to kitesurfers based on this. (I have one for good measure though)[/quote

No its your idea, you started it, and you are maintaining it, I am making you responsible to carry out my wish to keep any incident involving me off this list to respect my friends and family.
Thank you


Laughingman, I agree with everything you wrote with one exception,
out of respect for your friends and particularly your family, I am nominating YOU as being responsible for keeping your name off this list.


Touché Johnny, no doubt I will do my best to keep myself off the list. I would consider myself safety Pete and I welcome more conversations about basic and/or advanced measures to keep all of us safe. I just cannot condone a list like this which is lacking in fundamental reasons why what happened happened. But as a person, if I was requested to do something in the event of death I would have no choice morally to follow those instructions to the best of my ability. So far LWC is not recognizing how he and this idea of his is disrespecting the memory of those who we are learning mistakes from by simplifying the incident to one line of cursory information.
That is essentially the purpose and reasoning behind my posts.


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 Post subject: Re: Open source kite fatality and critical injury database.
PostPosted: Fri Nov 01, 2013 12:39 am 
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constructive criticism no problem.

There is a column call source which can contain unlimited links to more detail.

There is no 6 word limit to description.. they are short for now because this is the stage it is at.

I never claimed this is the definitive education list for kiters, I am claiming that everything starts somewhere and open source is an easier more effective way to collect data as wikipedia has shown and is way less open to corruption/conflicts of interest. Everyone can use it in the way they see fit, challenging it , updating it.. whatever. It's almost 2014 - this is the way many things are done today, the technology is awesome- and with good reason, it's effective.

My own personal view is that condensed information (eg short description) will be useful to those that don't have time and may even get them to look further into things which is great (eg i would remove sharks/heart attacks etc...). But that is up to me to publish choosing my own analysis methods, again - even that is up for discussion. Columns have been added by suggestions already and more detail is possible no problem. Some of the event descriptions are no different to the crap news media coverage and will be inaccurate sometimes - If you know better - simply update it, and repaste, or post and i will update it. If you don't like it, don't read it, but remember when a non grass roots kiter starts to compile such a list as I know is happening (I am aware of this happening) - this is avaiblle to argue the case quickly, effectively and with sources and many kiteboarders will learn from this. I understand the "disrespectful angle" - common from trolls with no respect for the tragedy (called rider stupid dumb or some such complete bull5hit) - it happens on forums/facebook but comments like this are not part of what is happening here - if you know better you are free to edit...

Jeez, u geting me to write books now - not what I wanted, but I believe this is a great idea that can benefit kiteboarders.


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 Post subject: Re: Open source kite fatality and critical injury database.
PostPosted: Fri Nov 01, 2013 1:34 am 
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Laughingman wrote:
Touché Johnny, no doubt I will do my best to keep myself off the list. I would consider myself safety Pete and I welcome more conversations about basic and/or advanced measures to keep all of us safe. I just cannot condone a list like this which is lacking in fundamental reasons why what happened happened. But as a person, if I was requested to do something in the event of death I would have no choice morally to follow those instructions to the best of my ability. So far LWC is not recognizing how he and this idea of his is disrespecting the memory of those who we are learning mistakes from by simplifying the incident to one line of cursory information.
That is essentially the purpose and reasoning behind my posts.


While I agree that more information would be useful, this list is a good start and details could be filled in later. I think you are being way too controlling here. Perhaps you should contact your local newspapers and television stations and tell them that you do not want them to report your eventual death kiteboarding "out of respect to your family". I do not think your request is reasonable and I completely disagree that not respecting your wishes is somehow immoral.

Let's get even more specific here. If you died kiteboarding I would have ZERO problem talking about it with other people. I might even say that you did something stupid. I might even call you an idiot or worse. That's just my opinion and you get no special treatment just because you are dead. That might be taboo to you (speaking ill of the dead) but it doesn't mean anything at all to me and talking about it might help someone else from suffering the same fate.

In rock climbing there is an annual list put out of rock climbing accidents and there are discussions about how to avoid the same mistakes. It is extremely useful and I am glad that some people feel the same as far as kiteboarding goes.


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