Re: Open source kite fatality and critical injury database.
Posted: Sat Nov 02, 2013 2:48 am
thx for deleting ricks post - that didnt sit well with me, I can tell you that much.
Is there any personal vendetta behind it?
Nah. IKA ---- It's the lack of open debate that is my concern, and was at the time of all that olympic politics. The kiteboarding community was told to shut up and tell Markus do all the talking (well that is what he told them!). They were not to have an opinion if the campaign was to be successful. Overall I saw world kiteboard safety was secondary to the campaign. My local sailing club(ISAF rep for nz) was saying to the national paper kiteracing is not dangerous its the freestyle part that is- bizzare. Everything was approached wrongly in my book. I debated with Gunnar at the time and we certainly don't see eye to eye on everything in those reports but some things we did - did a kiter/ competitor not even proof read the document he is showing to the world!!. Gunnar was the same, radio silence with then respectfully fronted up rather than just try to simply discredit me. I am sure all of you know each other well!
No vendetta against RICKI either unless he continues personal attacks on me...
I disagree with his opinion that private data on kite accidents is more important from the perspective of access compared to education that can be gained from it. Impartial data, no conflicts of interest, not release willy nilly depending on the agenda of the day - paid court cases/olympic inclusion/access/sell data to insurance companies?. I was also disappointed he did not front up during the olympic campaign for open debate not putting worldwide kiter saftey as the priority by joining in the debate - above olympic inclusion. Why?
__________________
If you were positive towards kiting in Olympics, shouldn't you just have moved forward and show the sailors and clubs what to look out for?
I think to say I was positive towards kiting in the olympics would be stretching the truth after I saw the campaign evolving! I do see it as causing huge conflicts of interests and corruption if not dealt with correctly. The prime riders at the time should have been dealing with it all they are the ones- Adam Koch etc the dude that slept in his car in Maui years ago to go kiting - awesome!I I did read that he thought he got fully shafted at the time. Its a huge problem when you don't even let the actual riders themselves give their opinion out for debate., they are the ones maybe in the future being told to launch and land their kites at unsuitable locations, they are teh pioneers. they should have been driving it to make sure so many of the ridiculous decisions were not made. They did not write those public reports.
Did as you say and met up with them but were horrified what I was hearing, it was a dangerous situation for kiteboarding, this was not just me talking, this was the sailing club talking too!!!!! NZ sailing clubs would be some of the most dangerous places to hold events I know of - that is for real, you don't teach non kiters to look after kiters safety, you teach kiters an dthey were asking us for advice!.,I though jeez the same thing is happening in other countries too. It was wrong so we started the NZKRA facebook page, a kiteboarding association so we had a say, most of us were against the ISAF representive for sailing being kitesurfings Olympic Rep in NZ.
Some of us had been racing twintips without any idea the olympic campign was on its way. It was then that decision was reversed. All the interest lost. The first few raceboard had started showing up and this meant those on less expensive boards just lost interest, deviding the field up or losing on a twintip. A group of racers still remain, all on raceboards, which is good for them. But that killed the racing for those without the cash for the fast gear. Kind of true to say it was too early - it seems many riders $3000 boards are gathering dust as slalom and foil are being hyped right now. The momentum was lost. It hasn't come back. I still have an interest, my foil is half done, but a lot of the stoke surrounding racing with my friends on affordable kit was lost.
My views and idea evolve as I learn.
Is there any personal vendetta behind it?
Nah. IKA ---- It's the lack of open debate that is my concern, and was at the time of all that olympic politics. The kiteboarding community was told to shut up and tell Markus do all the talking (well that is what he told them!). They were not to have an opinion if the campaign was to be successful. Overall I saw world kiteboard safety was secondary to the campaign. My local sailing club(ISAF rep for nz) was saying to the national paper kiteracing is not dangerous its the freestyle part that is- bizzare. Everything was approached wrongly in my book. I debated with Gunnar at the time and we certainly don't see eye to eye on everything in those reports but some things we did - did a kiter/ competitor not even proof read the document he is showing to the world!!. Gunnar was the same, radio silence with then respectfully fronted up rather than just try to simply discredit me. I am sure all of you know each other well!
No vendetta against RICKI either unless he continues personal attacks on me...
I disagree with his opinion that private data on kite accidents is more important from the perspective of access compared to education that can be gained from it. Impartial data, no conflicts of interest, not release willy nilly depending on the agenda of the day - paid court cases/olympic inclusion/access/sell data to insurance companies?. I was also disappointed he did not front up during the olympic campaign for open debate not putting worldwide kiter saftey as the priority by joining in the debate - above olympic inclusion. Why?
__________________
If you were positive towards kiting in Olympics, shouldn't you just have moved forward and show the sailors and clubs what to look out for?
I think to say I was positive towards kiting in the olympics would be stretching the truth after I saw the campaign evolving! I do see it as causing huge conflicts of interests and corruption if not dealt with correctly. The prime riders at the time should have been dealing with it all they are the ones- Adam Koch etc the dude that slept in his car in Maui years ago to go kiting - awesome!I I did read that he thought he got fully shafted at the time. Its a huge problem when you don't even let the actual riders themselves give their opinion out for debate., they are the ones maybe in the future being told to launch and land their kites at unsuitable locations, they are teh pioneers. they should have been driving it to make sure so many of the ridiculous decisions were not made. They did not write those public reports.
Did as you say and met up with them but were horrified what I was hearing, it was a dangerous situation for kiteboarding, this was not just me talking, this was the sailing club talking too!!!!! NZ sailing clubs would be some of the most dangerous places to hold events I know of - that is for real, you don't teach non kiters to look after kiters safety, you teach kiters an dthey were asking us for advice!.,I though jeez the same thing is happening in other countries too. It was wrong so we started the NZKRA facebook page, a kiteboarding association so we had a say, most of us were against the ISAF representive for sailing being kitesurfings Olympic Rep in NZ.
Some of us had been racing twintips without any idea the olympic campign was on its way. It was then that decision was reversed. All the interest lost. The first few raceboard had started showing up and this meant those on less expensive boards just lost interest, deviding the field up or losing on a twintip. A group of racers still remain, all on raceboards, which is good for them. But that killed the racing for those without the cash for the fast gear. Kind of true to say it was too early - it seems many riders $3000 boards are gathering dust as slalom and foil are being hyped right now. The momentum was lost. It hasn't come back. I still have an interest, my foil is half done, but a lot of the stoke surrounding racing with my friends on affordable kit was lost.
My views and idea evolve as I learn.