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 Post subject: Re: Epic kites and after-sales service
PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2013 8:54 am 
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capitan nemo wrote:
I could never understand why people feel the urge to talk bad on a post like this.

And to Dimitri and the Epic team all i can say is: Keep up the good work. seems like your customers are happy.


And I could never understand why people feel the urge to talk positive on a post like this (as in your own words).
I did not experience that after-sales service as it was mentioned by some (mostly Epic retailers/sales reps/Epic team riders), neither did a few of the others who made that clear here.
So please accept *everybody's* opinion!

Surely you wont get a personal reply from the Cabrinha or North boss who are selling *far* more of their products than the very small Epic brand.


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 Post subject: Re: Epic kites and after-sales service
PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2013 10:46 am 
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tautologies wrote:
I think you are a bit unfair. When D. says some brands choose to use inferior material he neglects to say that these choices are always tradeoffs...

I would agree it is about trade-offs

but one thing is to use sub-par materials in something easily identifiable, while another matter is to hide inferior solutions in details that are hard to identify (and still claim top quality as most brands do)

Dimitri choose to stop feeding this discussion, pitty, even if I can understand why. But apart from the enterntaining value I´m sure there were things to be learn


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 Post subject: Re: Epic kites and after-sales service
PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2013 1:15 pm 
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Tiago1973 wrote:
tautologies wrote:
I think you are a bit unfair. When D. says some brands choose to use inferior material he neglects to say that these choices are always tradeoffs...

I would agree it is about trade-offs

but one thing is to use sub-par materials in something easily identifiable, while another matter is to hide inferior solutions in details that are hard to identify (and still claim top quality as most brands do)

Dimitri choose to stop feeding this discussion, pitty, even if I can understand why. But apart from the enterntaining value I´m sure there were things to be learn

I can see your point. There is perhaps a threshold somewhere.


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 Post subject: Re: Epic kites and after-sales service
PostPosted: Tue Nov 12, 2013 1:51 am 
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I use to ride the Epic kites and I have had communication with De, the dude is awesome indeed, even if you have old gear he will help you, emails are answered so fast even superman can't match. I switched over to BWS, tried email Ben on his face book page and never got a response from the dude, I am waiting to see whats up with the Surf kite, if they are clean on the surf I will switch back.


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 Post subject: Re: Epic kites and after-sales service
PostPosted: Tue Nov 12, 2013 6:27 am 
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As i said i have chatted to the big D a fair few times and I'm not even an epic rider!!

Although that new screamer ltd 4g...looks a must to try..soon it seems in our part of the world.


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 Post subject: Re: Epic kites and after-sales service
PostPosted: Tue Nov 12, 2013 2:33 pm 
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Dimitri M wrote:
jakster4
I already did mention some of the short cuts other kite companies do on my previous post. Check page 3 on this topic.
Quote:
......These are some of the response I get from some factories when I am building the EPIC kites: "Don't use this material use this, don't use this thread use this, don't sew it that way because it cost more money and it takes too long. Most companies use this method or this material.".....and the list goes on....



So you go from having "intense research" to saying => "don't sew it this way and don't use this thread use this"

Again, it just doesn't add up. There is way too much hype. Putting down 11 companies for cutting corners and you can't even state the specific facts each company cuts, which you claim to know..... Apparently Epic is just the "best of the best" and everyone else is cutting corners except Naish.

For me there is just way to much talk and hype and too many exaggerations. I've used Epic kites from 2010-2011 and the quality was okay. But is was by no means, the "BEST". The quick release sucked and the canopy material was very weak. It was average/below average. And 2010 was definitely a below average year.

No doubt you do a good job at responding to everyone and pay attention to customer service. And I love your passion for the sport and your drive to start your own company. I admire that. But its all the hyped up claims and bullcrap that push me away - all the personal emails you post and all the claims of we have the best this and the best that. When in reality its just an average product.


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 Post subject: Re: Epic kites and after-sales service
PostPosted: Tue Nov 12, 2013 5:06 pm 
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Hey Jakster4,

I would have agreed with you that Epic products are average till I got to ride the 3G 10m Ltd! Maybe in your opinion you see that they are average but that would be strickly your opinion! I for one hated the Nano kite from eclipse and was very skeptical about investing into another kite from Dimitri! I love his stoke for kiting and after seeing all the people that defend his kites I thought that it was time to try one. I picked up a 3G 10M Ltd for a steal of a deal with the idea that I would just sell it off after I put some time on it. I can honestly say that it is in no way an average kite! It is well made, great bag and I am even using the older black bar and find that it is a decent bar (far better than some that I have used in the past). The kite is amazing to fly and I cannot believe that it just gets better every time that I use it! I have not tried the other kites in the range but I can assure you that I would really like to demo them all now. I still enjoy the north kites and especially the ozone kites that I am using but the 10M will have a stay in my quiver. Once he puts in the larger valve I think that they will be on par with the top dogs for all the bells and whistles....(it is the only thing outside softer bar ends that his kites are missing). Once again this is just my opinion from one kiter to another.

James


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 Post subject: Re: Epic kites and after-sales service
PostPosted: Tue Nov 12, 2013 5:25 pm 
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Soul19 we'are hangin here in australia waiting to demo the new 4g 10m Ltd - but personaly I dont like black kites.. They make me look like a Bogan lol


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 Post subject: Re: Epic kites and after-sales service
PostPosted: Tue Nov 12, 2013 5:43 pm 
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Hey Shavethewhales,

I for one have no desire at the moment to ride the 4G screamer 10m as I just can't see how he can make it better than the 3g one. I can be at times a kite whore (I am taking meds for this but they seem to not be working) and go through a lot of kites. I hate kites that feel like I am flying a garbage bag with how lifeless they can be. I want a kite that is solid in the sky but turns immediately from direct imput into the bar (my ozone C4's and vegas kites have that). I am almost skepitcal about using any of the others kites as I feel that I would be just let down. As for the black material of the kites I guess that comes just down to preference (I have owned many black kites and seem to gravitate to them). They seem hide stains and appear to retain that new look longer. My north kites are sharp looking in that mind altering colour scheme! Thank goodness the Ozone kites fly so well as my 2011 kites look about as bland as you can get!

James

James


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 Post subject: Re: Epic kites and after-sales service
PostPosted: Tue Nov 12, 2013 6:52 pm 
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Location: Save a life...adopt a Pitbull
The 3G and 4G Screamer 10 LTD are very different kites from each other.
I preferred the 3G S10 Screamer,
...so I REALLY LOOK FORWARD to the next generation of EPIC JUDGE KITES. (do you hear me Dimitri?)
I can see why a C4 and Vegas owner would love the 3G Screamer 10LTD.
__________

Interesting to read the last posts from James and jackster4.
I agree completely with James,
how a kite flies is my first and largest consideration, and the Epic kites are a blast to fly...for me.
But I like the way all the MoMi kites fly, it is just personal preference.
I feel the same way about Ozone kites, they just fly really well, but they are not the heaviest built kites out there, and the valves can be leaky if you are careless, it did not stop me owning one.
I think North and Ocean Rodeo make bullet proof kites, but if I don't like the way they fly, then it matters not.
I could not care less what valve is on a kite, I've had two North kites and the dump valve down on the end is stupid, and I hate the battens, but it sure would not deter me from flying a Dice if I liked the way it flies.
I love the way Wainman kites fly and the one I own does not even have one pump, does not bother me in the least.
jackster4 has decided he wants a slower kite that sits further back than his 2010 model 7 & 9 Screamers.
In my opinion, the brand that jakster4 has moved to, fly like crappy beginner kites, and I've seen more problems (safety system release and reload in deep water, canopies splitting, valves leaking) than any other kite brand, but that's just my opinion from seeing the kites in my local crew, and I guess does not reflect the worldwide consensus.
I have had fantastic customer service from Epic, Slingshot and Ocean Rodeo.
I have a buddy that had a North kite 3-4 years ago, and it had problems, he could not get the dealer or the company to respond at all.
But I also see Dan from North doing a great job responding to customers today, so clearly the experience I saw was just one case.
We have a few very vocal guys here that had problems with Epic that they could not resolve...on the other hand, most dealers and customers who deal with the company, are amazed at their responsiveness and customer service.
There are brands that I would never buy, based on my opinion of their customer service history, and a few of them are big companies, but I could maybe, just possibly, maybe have a skewed opinion that may not be entirely statistically completely accurate. :wink:
I will agree that Dimitri says too much, he is proud of his gear and works harder than 99% of other humans to bring the best gear he can to market, he is too open about telling things exactly the way he sees them, and would sometimes do well to not be so open and honest about what he feels and what he knows.
But most people who have dealt with him can easily look past this quirk, and really enjoy his massive enthusiasm.
And those that like the way his Epic kites fly, are left feeling flat with most other kites.
Enjoy what you fly and try to be positive. :thumb:


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