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 Post subject: Re: Maui Kitebeach to be banned !
PostPosted: Sat Nov 09, 2013 5:51 am 
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Location: L.A. & Ventura Counties, CA
.
Kamikuza wrote:
SalmonSlayer wrote:
In no way did I condemn all kite boarders for the actions of a few kite boarders. However it is all of our responsibility to make sure our own house is clean or these issues will happen again and again.

Not in so many words, no. But you seem to be missing the point that all could be punished for the "actions" of a few. It's living in fantasy world thinking that "self-policing" is going to stop bystanders having a moan and we all know that squeaky wheels get the grease - and if you look at DickM's precious MauiNews responses, you'll see Philip and his wife account for the vast majority of the "upset public" responses...

coleman wrote:
god this argument is so absurd. for years there were no problems and now with this family there is a shit storm. i seriously doubt that there was anything different going on there around the time this family had their complaints.

There it is in a nutshell.

And that's why I have sympathy for the Maui kiters...


It would be harder to miss your point if you stated it clearly and unambiguously in the first place (of course its harder to then weasel out of if it's shown to be excessively ridiculous).

Although I completely agree that it is wrong and unacceptable to punish the innocent for the actions of the guilty, YOU are "...missing the point..." as to WHO IS RESPONSIBLE for the inappropriate punishment of the innocent in this case.

First of all, the only kiters who I would call “COMPLETELY INNOCENT” are those who have NEVER had any knowledge of the conflict and those FEW who have made ANY effort to FAIRLY analyze and CORRECT the situation in ANY REASONABLE manner ("REASONABLE manner" means, among other things, NOT DEMANDING that OTHER people unwillingly sacrifice their LEGAL rights). With this definition, the VAST majority of kiters who have made their opinions known, Or who have sat back and done nothing, are NOT "completely innocent" and in this case the question only becomes whether or not the potential "punishment" ends up being excessive in consideration of any particular amount of "guilt" . This determination is going to unavoidably vary according to each individual because it is so subjective and personal.

However, REGARDLESS of whether someone feels that any potential "punishment" is excessive or not, we're back to the point you are "missing". Specifically, that ALL the kiters who are NOT "completely innocent" pursuant to the foregoing definition, have in fact CAUSED the situation to develop either by their actions and/or inactions. In which case, they are simply REAPING what they've sown. Those that may potentially reap more "punishment" than they deserve should first blame the AUTHORITY for not doing their job and second, the kiters who are MOST RESPONSIBLE for the problems by violating both the ACTUAL law and kiter ethics regarding non-kiters. The non-kiters who did nothing except stand up for their rights are INSIGNIFICANTLY to blame, if at all.

Although you have a right to sympathize with whoever you want, for whatever reasons you want, neither you nor anyone else should DEMAND that others do the same.

As to the IDIOTIC concept that the longer a wrong is perpetrated, the more right it becomes, all a believer need do is to convince the AUTHORITY of this contention (or, more plausibly, that the wrong shouldn’t be classified as a wrong) and thereby get the wrong LEGALLY changed to a right.

Richard M.
Malibu Kitesurfing - since 2002
(310) - 430 - KITE (5483)
http://www.MalibuKitesurfing.NET
kfRichard@MalibuKitesurfing.NET


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 Post subject: Re: Maui Kitebeach to be banned !
PostPosted: Sat Nov 09, 2013 6:38 am 
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Kamikuza wrote:
SalmonSlayer wrote:
In no way did I condemn all kite boarders for the actions of a few kite boarders. However it is all of our responsibility to make sure our own house is clean or these issues will happen again and again.

Not in so many words, no. But you seem to be missing the point that all could be punished for the "actions" of a few. It's living in fantasy world thinking that "self-policing" is going to stop bystanders having a moan and we all know that squeaky wheels get the grease - and if you look at DickM's precious MauiNews responses, you'll see Philip and his wife account for the vast majority of the "upset public" responses...
.


Yet another conveniently obtuse interpretation of my words. Your interpretations of my posts make you look dense or argumentative for personal thrills.

This will be the last time I feed the troll. In no way did i state that self policing will stop bystanders from moaning. I doubt there is one poster on this forum that believes perfect kiter behavior would stop non-kiters negative reactions. I am not sure how you would come to such a conclusion except for the aforementioned reasons. The point is that self-policing is the one thing the kiteboarding community has the most control over to help reduce negative reactions from others. If the locals and visiting kiteboarders cant own up to the fact that they need to self-police then they are their own worst enemy.


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 Post subject: Re: Maui Kitebeach to be banned !
PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2013 7:25 pm 
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Joined: Fri Dec 12, 2008 2:46 am
Posts: 107
Location: San Diego
Signed it, good luck.


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 Post subject: Re: Maui Kitebeach to be banned !
PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2013 9:55 pm 
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Joined: Wed Aug 03, 2005 6:25 pm
Posts: 875
Location: Vancouver
People love to argue.


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 Post subject: Re: Maui Kitebeach to be banned !
PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2013 10:00 pm 
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no they don't


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 Post subject: Re: Maui Kitebeach to be banned !
PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2013 11:28 pm 
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JS wrote:
People love to argue.


YEA But :
"It would be a Boring world, without a Little Passion" !!

Bille


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 Post subject: Re: Maui Kitebeach to be banned !
PostPosted: Tue Nov 12, 2013 2:19 pm 
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I live in a place where basically nobody policies the water, locals don't see the need or have time and groups of people come here and act how they act at home or better said very dangerously. Most of the locals also have businesses and since the season is so short now here in Brasil they cant afford the possibility of chasing off a potential client and or student. The only thing that is lucky is that the wind is side shore and most of the time somebody gets dragged down the beach and loses skin, but sooner or later there is going to be a bad accident involving innocent beachgoers. There has been so many close calls it is just amazing. What can be done? When I go up to people and tell them things it is just a waste of time and usually turns aggressive, I am not a fan of violence but sometimes it is the only thing people respond to? I usually just ride the non-peak hours but in general my spot is suffering from anarchy riding or just no rules or safety code, maybe we just need to wait till someone a non-kiter gets hurt bad then it will be up to the police to secure the spot? It seems like nobody takes it serious until it is too late.


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 Post subject: Re: Maui Kitebeach to be banned !
PostPosted: Tue Nov 12, 2013 4:18 pm 
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Location: Florida
Ironically, one of the earlier bans I can think of was in Rio years back. It was/is a very small launch area in a congested setting which drove the ban and restrictions in the first place.

There must be some other kiters who see things like you do. Hopefully some are in the business of kiting. I suggest you meet with them informally, exchange concerns and ideas. I would go over all the bans that are out there and how even your spot might be threatened one day., One or two guys can't get a lot done if most everyone else is indifferent or focused on conflicting agendas. Try to see if you can get a group of concerned riders together, come up with a short list of rules or guidelines that are designed to avoid complaints, injuries and problems. Then work to get the people in your group to buy into them and help spread the word on the beach. It isn't perfect but it is a start. Good luck.

Jbrook wrote:
I live in a place where basically nobody policies the water, locals don't see the need or have time and groups of people come here and act how they act at home or better said very dangerously. Most of the locals also have businesses and since the season is so short now here in Brasil they cant afford the possibility of chasing off a potential client and or student. The only thing that is lucky is that the wind is side shore and most of the time somebody gets dragged down the beach and loses skin, but sooner or later there is going to be a bad accident involving innocent beachgoers. There has been so many close calls it is just amazing. What can be done? When I go up to people and tell them things it is just a waste of time and usually turns aggressive, I am not a fan of violence but sometimes it is the only thing people respond to? I usually just ride the non-peak hours but in general my spot is suffering from anarchy riding or just no rules or safety code, maybe we just need to wait till someone a non-kiter gets hurt bad then it will be up to the police to secure the spot? It seems like nobody takes it serious until it is too late.


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 Post subject: Re: Maui Kitebeach to be banned !
PostPosted: Tue Nov 12, 2013 4:42 pm 
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longwhitecloud wrote:
no they don't


Yes they do!


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 Post subject: Re: Maui Kitebeach to be banned !
PostPosted: Tue Nov 12, 2013 4:46 pm 
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Location: Save a life...adopt a Pitbull
Laughingman wrote:
longwhitecloud wrote:
no they don't


Yes they do!
You're wrong...and your mother wears army boots! :boxing:


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