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 Post subject: Re: Maui Kitebeach to be banned !
PostPosted: Tue Nov 19, 2013 1:43 am 
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Location: L.A. & Ventura Counties, CA
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balugh wrote:
Haole_Built wrote:
Edit: So it prohibits vessels and sailboards, I guess kites are OK then? :D


You may be right.... It is 'silent' on kite boards...probably because they didn't really exist in 1994...although the intention is pretty clear. That said, kite boards are not considered craft because they don't support you on your own in the water. It is one reason a lost kiteboard is considered, legally, to be lost property instead of salvage when someone else recovers it and demands a fee.

This might muddy the legal waters enough to require re-drafting before it is enforceable against kites... It would be ironic if it cleared the beach of kayakers and windsurfers but left it free for kite surfers to use...


It is true that a cursory look at the reg suggests several avenues for legal attacks and a comprehensive examination will likely produce additional possibilities. Also, the actual physical area eventually designated by the buoys etc. may introduce some other legal flaws as might any actual method of enforcement.

And last, but not least, as all the best A$$HOLE attorneys know, always ATTACK - not only does it distract from their clients’ wrongdoing, but it may find sensitive subjects that their opposition would rather not deal with (of course, there’s also the remote possibility that they could even win based upon the MERITS). For example, in this situation, the TRUE CAUSE of the actual conflict can be laid squarely at the feet of the AUTHORITY who REPEATEDLY abdicated their responsibility to enforce the regs against the very small percentage of violators. Another potential can of worms is that it is frequently possible to mount legal attacks on regulations by finding flaws (or POSSIBLE flaws) in how they were originally enabled.

Unfortunately, assuming that the bureaucrats involved are typical of most, they will not care one iota about how illegal any enforcement may be and will go ahead with it. They will have justifiable confidence that any individuals against whom they enforce it will have neither the where-with-all nor the balls to try to fight it in the courts.

They won’t worry that enforcement will motivate opposition because not only will very few violate the regs to the extent of being subjected to the enforcement, but also, because enforcement effectively REDUCES the number of kiters who show up, as time goes on, there are LESS and LESS kiters to provide any opposition.

LEARN FROM THIS SITUATION.


The BEST RESULT that the sport can now obtain from this situation (but won’t), would be a FIRM BELIEF that the ONLY effective way to control miscreants who threaten access is to put effort into GETTING ANY CONTROLLING AUTHORITY TO DO THEIR JOB in the first place. This includes coming up with a reasonable way for the authority to do so (preferably involving the least amount of WORK possible). If this had happened, BOTH kiters and non-kiters would have avoided ALL the unpleasantness of this situation.

It also would NOT have ended up providing PERFECT PROPAGANDA for anti-kiters to use at locations WORLDWIDE FOR YEARS TO COME.

Let’s all say “THANK YOU”.

Richard M.
Malibu Kitesurfing - since 2002
(310) - 430 - KITE (5483)
http://www.MalibuKitesurfing.NET
kfRichard@MalibuKitesurfing.NET


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 Post subject: Re: Maui Kitebeach to be banned !
PostPosted: Tue Nov 19, 2013 1:49 am 
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I think this response from the DOBOR is encouraging and now there is a point of contact to provide input to through Ms. Masuda. I was speaking to a representative of The Maui Kitesurfing Community tonight. These are the folks that maintain the current FAA waiver that permits kiting to occur at all along signification portions of the North Shore. They are aware of the situation and are working with other boardsport interests in attempting to bring things to a favorable conclusion. It may happen that the old swim zones may be enforced pending bringing the zone delineation in line with current uses. I hope they hold up on enforcement and go directly to the redrawing of the swim zones in consideration of current uses but time will tell.

I encourage folks to continue to sign the petition and anticipate something more formal will be put together to reach out to Ms. Masuda in regard to our concerns about access, crowding and other matters as kiters on the island and worldwide.

juandesooka wrote:
I got an email response back from Mr. Underwood this morning: "Thank you for your comments. The current swim zones have been in place since 1994 have not been adhered to. Because we received complaints, we need to ensure that the laws are being followed as written. We are open to amending the rules but will need to get community input first. I recommend that you work with our Maui District Manager, Stacy Masuda, to begin the public outreach."


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 Post subject: Re: Maui Kitebeach to be banned !
PostPosted: Tue Nov 19, 2013 3:42 am 
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RickI wrote:
I think this response from the DOBOR is encouraging and now there is a point of contact to provide input to through Ms. Masuda. I was speaking to a representative of The Maui Kitesurfing Community tonight. These are the folks that maintain the current FAA waiver that permits kiting to occur at all along signification portions of the North Shore. They are aware of the situation and are working with other boardsport interests in attempting to bring things to a favorable conclusion. It may happen that the old swim zones may be enforced pending bringing the zone delineation in line with current uses. I hope they hold up on enforcement and go directly to the redrawing of the swim zones in consideration of current uses but time will tell.

I encourage folks to continue to sign the petition and anticipate something more formal will be put together to reach out to Ms. Masuda in regard to our concerns about access, crowding and other matters as kiters on the island and worldwide.

juandesooka wrote:
I got an email response back from Mr. Underwood this morning: "Thank you for your comments. The current swim zones have been in place since 1994 have not been adhered to. Because we received complaints, we need to ensure that the laws are being followed as written. We are open to amending the rules but will need to get community input first. I recommend that you work with our Maui District Manager, Stacy Masuda, to begin the public outreach."


Nice work Rickl. Hey, do you have contact info for The Maui Kitesurfing Community? It seems like their website haven't been updated for a while and this email: mauikitesurfinfo@hawaii.rr.com is not working either.


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 Post subject: Re: Maui Kitebeach to be banned !
PostPosted: Tue Nov 19, 2013 3:55 am 
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RickI wrote:
I think this response from the DOBOR is encouraging and now there is a point of contact to provide input to through Ms. Masuda. I was speaking to a representative of The Maui Kitesurfing Community tonight. These are the folks that maintain the current FAA waiver that permits kiting to occur at all along signification portions of the North Shore. They are aware of the situation and are working with other boardsport interests in attempting to bring things to a favorable conclusion. It may happen that the old swim zones may be enforced pending bringing the zone delineation in line with current uses. I hope they hold up on enforcement and go directly to the redrawing of the swim zones in consideration of current uses but time will tell.

I encourage folks to continue to sign the petition and anticipate something more formal will be put together to reach out to Ms. Masuda in regard to our concerns about access, crowding and other matters as kiters on the island and worldwide.

juandesooka wrote:
I got an email response back from Mr. Underwood this morning: "Thank you for your comments. The current swim zones have been in place since 1994 have not been adhered to. Because we received complaints, we need to ensure that the laws are being followed as written. We are open to amending the rules but will need to get community input first. I recommend that you work with our Maui District Manager, Stacy Masuda, to begin the public outreach."

Wait, does that say that swimmers are ignoring the current swim zones?


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 Post subject: Re: Maui Kitebeach to be banned !
PostPosted: Tue Nov 19, 2013 4:48 am 
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We received discouraging news today that they will move forward with the enforcement of the swim zone and that our next step will be through public hearings. This process could take years for all of you that don't understand the system. So in the meantime, we will see how this shrinkage of access survives in a growing population of users. Thanks to that one kiter - you are so special. Hopefully there will be no leg breaking.


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 Post subject: Re: Maui Kitebeach to be banned !
PostPosted: Tue Nov 19, 2013 6:22 am 
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loosescrew wrote:
We received discouraging news today that they will move forward with the enforcement of the swim zone and that our next step will be through public hearings. This process could take years for all of you that don't understand the system. So in the meantime, we will see how this shrinkage of access survives in a growing population of users. Thanks to that one kiter - you are so special. Hopefully there will be no leg breaking.


Do you have a sense of the expected timing for this enforcement?
And can someone who knows these spots tell me the real deal ... are we really talking about no reasonable or practical kiting access on the north shore? Or are there still spots that will work, and we're just going to have to get cozy?

The launches at home mostly suck, rocks and logs and trees ... I don't need a big sandy beach. I am just hopeful for a way to get in the water.


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 Post subject: Re: Maui Kitebeach to be banned !
PostPosted: Tue Nov 19, 2013 6:23 am 
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So WHAT swim zone is being enforced?????


Is it just Kaa Point?
Can you still launch from Kite Beach?


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 Post subject: Re: Maui Kitebeach to be banned !
PostPosted: Tue Nov 19, 2013 6:37 am 
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Quote:
Do you have a sense of the expected timing for this enforcement?
And can someone who knows these spots tell me the real deal ... are we really talking about no reasonable or practical kiting access on the north shore? Or are there still spots that will work, and we're just going to have to get cozy?

The launches at home mostly suck, rocks and logs and trees ... I don't need a big sandy beach. I am just hopeful for a way to get in the water.


The map is at the beginning of this thread. Swim Zones A,B-East, B-West and C. There are other places to launch with the newly added Baldwin and there is always Lanes. Not sure about cozy as on any good day (remember this is Maui) there can be easily over 70 kites on the water and trust me, launching and landing is tricky these days. Cozy and kiting just don't work well together, plus all the lessons going on.


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 Post subject: Re: Maui Kitebeach to be banned !
PostPosted: Tue Nov 19, 2013 6:50 am 
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loosescrew wrote:
The map is at the beginning of this thread. Swim Zones A,B-East, B-West and C. There are other places to launch with the newly added Baldwin and there is always Lanes. Not sure about cozy as on any good day (remember this is Maui) there can be easily over 70 kites on the water and trust me, launching and landing is tricky these days. Cozy and kiting just don't work well together, plus all the lessons going on.


Thanks. Don't get wrong, not stoked about cozy! I may have crap launches at home, but crowded they are not. But at this point, I'll take cozy over being completely denied. If you believe in Murphy's Law, then you can be pretty much assured this situation is entirely my fault, having booked my 1st kiting vacation ... probably just lucky it isn't a volcano eruption or something worse. :duh:


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 Post subject: Re: Maui Kitebeach to be banned !
PostPosted: Tue Nov 19, 2013 7:32 am 
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Hi. This happend a few hours ago.......Today was a beautiful but windless day. I saw only one swimmer in the area.
No comment :( !
Aloha from Maui


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