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 Post subject: Re: Switch Labs
PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2014 12:33 pm 
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Yeah i actually just got one and its a good bar 'except' the grip is crap too hard and will rip your hands up after 2-4hrs kiting, the line swivel above the bar isnt that good either n twists up some...
I actually ordered a long spare bar with it and a small note saying to double check it doesnt get missed... And one bar turns up lol great customer service ;)
Anyway the slow up n down bar video that 'doesnt ' show it break uses a slow unrealist movement...
That instant power up from the back of the window in strong winds... Has apparently broken a few bars (diff brands) thats why id like to see it actually break in a test - they show everything else doing it..


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 Post subject: Re: Switch Labs
PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2014 11:54 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jul 08, 2011 12:29 am
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Location: New Zealand
Hello Shave The Whales:
The Switch bar has a highly durable Shore 35 Durometer seamless molded-in-place (not wrapped and glued EVA) grip. Shore 35 is between a rubber band and pencil eraser in hardness. We understand grip hardness and texture is a highly personal preference.

Switch Customer Service informs your shipment problem was responded to within 24hours and a refund made. Our apologies for any inconvenience.

Regarding the Switch Labs request and your non-Switch bar failure, dynamic load testing is technically complex involving energy absorption and the work of elastic deformation.

Briefly, in a dynamic beam test, a known mass is dropped at a fixed velocity and the beam must absorb the kinetic energy plus the additional work in deformation. Assuming the beam mass is ignored, stiffness is unchanged under a static or dynamic load and deformation occurs without energy loss, then the kinetic energy is exchanged directly with the strain energy of the beam. In this case the beam deformation and stress can be theoretically shown to be twice the static deformation at the same load.

For a suddenly powered kite, the theoretical assumptions are very conservative since other more dominant absorption mechanisms are present. Your body, harness, spreader bar, hook, the kite, the lines, bridle, bar ends and chicken loop/center line assembly (assuming it is bottomed out on the stopper) all deform and absorb energy far in excess of bar deformation. An example of deformation becoming the dominant energy absorption mechanism is also demonstrated in climbing rope drop testing and the variation of rope technology between climbing and static safety-designated rope.

Lab testing of the Switch bar was done by supporting the bar ends with webbing straps rather than the plastic bar ends. Starting around 200kg, it will begin to permanently bend rather than break placing the theoretical minimum dynamic bending load above 100kg (220 pounds.) At that point, given the other energy absorption mechanisms involved in an uncontrolled powering event, much higher loads would be required and a bent rather than broken Switch bar would become a safety feature.

Thanks for your interest!
Your Switch Kites Team


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 Post subject: Re: Switch Labs
PostPosted: Wed Apr 09, 2014 1:20 am 
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Joined: Sat Jun 30, 2012 11:25 am
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ShaveTheWhales wrote:
Yeah i actually just got one and its a good bar 'except' the grip is crap too hard and will rip your hands up after 2-4hrs kiting, the line swivel above the bar isnt that good either n twists up some...
I actually ordered a long spare bar with it and a small note saying to double check it doesnt get missed... And one bar turns up lol great customer service ;)
Anyway the slow up n down bar video that 'doesnt ' show it break uses a slow unrealist movement...
That instant power up from the back of the window in strong winds... Has apparently broken a few bars (diff brands) thats why id like to see it actually break in a test - they show everything else doing it..





Yeh must admit after using ozone and north bars the hardness of the grip was an issue for me to (you were using an epic bar I presume which also has a softer padding).

But funny enough after several sessions I have really got used to it, don't notice it and have actually come to really enjoy the grippy texture, especially when doing one handed board offs etc, especially when rotating as well, I really like the grip. In light winds as well the grip really allows you to feel the kite and use small wrist movements to work the kite. Had an all day session not long ago, 730am to 3pm, swapping a kite with my bro and no problems.

BUT I do maintain it is on the hard side of where it should be, and I have let switch know this. I also know you are a very aggressive rider and the this would highlight the hardness and grippy texture as well. But funny enough I don't even think about it now, have got used to it.

The above the bar swivel, well I maintain none of them work in the end and I have tried so many I don't buy any bullshit that they do in a consistent reliable way. But the below the bar swivel, aka iron heart, is in my opinion even better than norths and the best I've used. So I don't see a problem here. That swivel above the bar serves really to allow easy change over to a fifth line, double flag, high Y etc etc...customise the bar to the kite you use it with. Me I'd be happy without it anyway, but hey it's there, move on.

Anyone save the whales I have sent ya email on another topic altogether if you could find the time to reply I'd be very grateful.

Cheers.


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 Post subject: Re: Switch Labs
PostPosted: Thu Apr 10, 2014 1:17 pm 
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Hey WestOzzy

Did you press send on your email ???

Yeah the bar grip is ok, if your not riding overpowered or aggressive for long lengths of time - personal preference for sure - I see Naish listened to their market majority and changed away from the hard grip... different market I guess.

Switch

Rather than write 101 theoretical bla bla bla's
How about that Bar - bend & break video - it cant be any worse than your 'up n down' chicken loop line wear vid ha ha

Im impressed with 'most' of what ive seen which is why I bought one of your bars - so its of genuine interest to see it from a Real customer :D


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 Post subject: Re: Switch Labs
PostPosted: Thu Apr 10, 2014 11:32 pm 
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Pretty sure I did will try again...


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 Post subject: Re: Switch Labs
PostPosted: Thu May 01, 2014 10:30 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jul 24, 2010 6:22 am
Posts: 114
Location: Comox, BC
Bill / Switch Labs : have you seen the LE seam construction on the 2013 Blade kites ? Just got a Trigger in for some canopy repairs and noticed the LE seam. Momi is using doubled-Dacron with internal strips along the LE panel seam edges like most companies are using now. On the outside of the seam, rather than the soft grey webbing, he's covering it with a ribbon of DP 170 g/m2 Dacron, which as a protective cover is way stiffer than soft webbing ( will also be WAY easier to pick LE seam stitches out when it's time for a LE repair = happy repair guy !! ).

I will have to take a few pictures of this seam construction and post them. Wonder if it is stronger than the Switch LE seam - how about a tensile test ?? :-?


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 Post subject: Re: Switch Labs
PostPosted: Fri May 02, 2014 5:31 am 
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Location: Japan
Love the grip. Less hard on the skin of fingers than the regular stuff... but certainly weird feeling when you first use it. Might be I prefer the diameter too...

"Shock loading" videos are a good idea but you can easy do those AND the theoretical blah-blah...


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 Post subject: Re: Switch Labs
PostPosted: Fri May 02, 2014 7:05 am 
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You know what farq me with all my banging on about the grip....

I took my 2014 north Quad bar out the other day, was a gusty as wind wanted some more stability from the high Y on the 12m dice, and stuff me iI couldnt wait to get back on the switch bar in terms of grip and diameter. It kept feeling like it was going to slip out of my bloody hands all the time and I couldnt get as much leverage with the larger diameter...well I;ll be dammed.

We live and we learn!!!

Still reckon some slight padding wouldnt go astray though, but padding means a join and joins split..cant see this switch grip ever going to be quite frank with you.


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 Post subject: Re: Switch Labs
PostPosted: Sat May 03, 2014 12:56 am 
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Joined: Sat Jul 24, 2010 6:22 am
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Location: Comox, BC
OK, here's some pictures of that '13 Blade Trigger's LE seam ( I know, so exciting ... )
The flat side of the j-seam :
Image
and the folded-over side of the j-seam :
Image
Last a view of the fold tipped up to show how thin the fold is ...
Image

So I had it wrong in my first quick look at it. First the Dacron isn't DP ( no rip-stop thread in the warp direction about every 1 cm ), but the softer stuff I've seen on Cabs, and F1 Bandits. Had a look inside and it's not double-Dacron, but marker tape reinforced, fooled me with the 4-point zig zag near the edge.
More importantly, only a single run of stitching on the bottom of the J, no back-up run on the fold line. And it's only the light blue ribbon that is folded, not the panel fabric.

So not the robust seam construction that I first expected.


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