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 Post subject: Re: Lofting/Deadly Dragging
PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2013 1:08 pm 
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cool to know the table is good for sumo wrestlers :D


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 Post subject: Re: Lofting/Deadly Dragging
PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2013 1:14 pm 
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Fnar! :nono: :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: Lofting/Deadly Dragging
PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2013 1:35 pm 
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is the lofting a real dangerous thing?

I don't think so. At least if it is not a real freak gust.

If you keep simple rules in mind, like "distance is your friend" (thx Richard for the story of those guys...unbelievable!!!) then if you get lofted you just fly it, come down and release.
I think the real problem is here the fast kites! Too easy to loose control and get it to loop.
A slower kite just sits there.

I think lessons should teach that if yo get lofted, you need to fly it, and not panic. There is no other option!


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 Post subject: Re: Lofting/Deadly Dragging
PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2013 1:36 pm 
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Erik Ecks might disagree, Toby...


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 Post subject: Re: Lofting/Deadly Dragging
PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2013 5:19 pm 
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Location: L.A. & Ventura Counties, CA
.
ronnie wrote:
RichardM wrote:
.

At any rate, when I saw one of the 4 didn't HAVE a kite leash, I couldn't resist asking him if he had one. Since I was just in shorts and he wasn't sure if I was a kiter, he pointed to his red line attachment at the CL and said that was his leash. When I then asked him if he knew what the purpose of a leash was, he said he didn't want to argue and walked away.

Richard M.
Malibu Kitesurfing - since 2002
(310) - 430 - KITE (5483)
http://www.MalibuKitesurfing.NET
kfRichard@MalibuKitesurfing.NET


The rest of what you said is fine.

If that guy was flying a 2009 Cabrinha, then he answered your question correctly and told you where his kite leash was.

I've had someone ask me the same question when flying a 2009 Cabrinha.

Thanks for the reminder. You are CORRECT. I had forgotten about the Cab system. Since I didn't check the type of kite, it is possible that I was mistaken. Next time I'll be more careful. (see what I mean about getting dumbed down?).

Richard M.
Malibu Kitesurfing - since 2002
(310) - 430 - KITE (5483)
http://www.MalibuKitesurfing.NET
kfRichard@MalibuKitesurfing.NET


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 Post subject: Re: Lofting/Deadly Dragging
PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2013 10:26 pm 
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Given how it is defined, I think lofting is always due to operator error, in large measure being in the wrong place at the wrong time. There are other ways of being pulled off by a kite aside from lofting of course with both similar and different causes. For instance simple dragging or dealing with a looping kite.

Lofting was defined a dozen years ago on the old Egroups email list as:

"Lofting is the involuntary lifting of a kitesurfer in a gust and getting blown downwind"
http://www.kiteforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=2311536&p=188714


Traditional C kites cut very little slack when faced with excess wind, beyond a point you were simply yanked off your feet to be dragged and/or lofted. BOW and high depower kites offer more latitude to avoid lofting by virtue of the major ability to diminish kite power. Why are there still loftings then?

I believe it is still caused by operator error. You need excessive lift to create a lofting by placing yourself in too much wind and/or failing to properly depower your kite in time or worse by inducing a jump accidentally by miscontrolling your bar. The first goal is to avoid the high wind emergency in the first place, failing that which is a big mistake, you then need to properly depower early enough to avoid getting lofted. It goes without saying you need to maintain proper control of your kite otherwise. People will continually fail to act early enough to avoid problems. In the bare seconds of a gust front or a rotored gust, you may not be able to react rapidly enough assuming you even think of it before impact.

Avoid squalls and excessively gusty winds, uplift or lift bands and be prepared to properly depower EARLY if even still offshore and competently manage things after. Rig the right sized kite for actual conditions and always maintain proper control of your kite.

.


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 Post subject: Re: Lofting/Deadly Dragging
PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2013 11:45 pm 
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Toby wrote:
is the lofting a real dangerous thing?

I don't think so. At least if it is not a real freak gust.

If you keep simple rules in mind, like "distance is your friend" (thx Richard for the story of those guys...unbelievable!!!) then if you get lofted you just fly it, come down and release.
I think the real problem is here the fast kites! Too easy to loose control and get it to loop.
A slower kite just sits there.

I think lessons should teach that if yo get lofted, you need to fly it, and not panic. There is no other option!


I agree and don't agree with you!

Is a lofting a dangerous thing? it most certainly is!!!!.. most deaths occur by an involuntary lofting.

Flying the kite while lofted is good advice. As you state. There is no other option.
let the bar out and keep the kite at the zenith. Then power up and redirect as you normally would for landing.

The problem with a lofting is that it occurs typically when you are overpowered in higher winds.
As soon as you leave the ground you start hauling arse down wind. its the down wind speed that's the issue when landing. On the water not a problem. on the land..... well you will it depends what obstacles are in the way!.....

Distance is your friend... good advice. but it is not always possible.

Fast kites are the culprit? no this is wrong. Its not the fast kite that gets you kills you (of course its possible). its the overpowered kite that lofts/kills you.

As an example. If I am flying a slow 18m in 25 knots or a fast 6m in 25knots. I am far far far far far more likely to be lofted/killed by the slower but overpowered 18m. Infact my 6m does not have the power to loft me in those winds.

The advice that should be given is do not fly an over powered kite irrespective of size.


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 Post subject: Re: Lofting/Deadly Dragging
PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2013 11:45 pm 
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Joined: Sat Nov 17, 2012 7:39 pm
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Location: CA, HI
From my perspective the most vulnerable (and dangerous) kiter is the one who is kiting between one and two years. You are good enough for the basics, confident enough to step out of the box, but you lack experience for these 'oh-shit' moments.
Well, the only way to gain experience is from bad decisions - and that's where the rubber hits the road. The majority of us (myself very much included) had our own share of those 'ohhh-shit' moments. We took note, we learned and we were evolving ... for some of us these moments didn't go so well. Despite all the good advise from parents, teacher, god-fathers and moms, kite-instructors and local pastor - 'I can make this work' were our famous last thoughts ...

It is hard to point fingers and drawing a road map nudging to the edge of our life as a kiter. Maybe just step in when you see something really stupid is about to go down - whoop some ass?

peace


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 Post subject: Re: Lofting/Deadly Dragging
PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2013 11:53 pm 
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Location: The Naki
I do have a theory that most kitesurfers are scared of getting air over the land. As a result if they get lofted over land fear takes over and they are like a "deer in the headlight"

I left wing idea is to practice pendulum jumps on land in clean consistant winds to get used to a bit of airtime over the land. Remove some of the paralising fear of airtime over land and you may stand a better chance of survival during a lofting.

As a landboarder I regularly jump on land and am quite used to it. To be honest jumping on land teaches you a good kite flying technique. you need to landing it properly or it hurts. you also develop techniques to give a soft landing in most cercumstances.

On the water you can have a sloppy technique and who cares.


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 Post subject: Re: Lofting/Deadly Dragging
PostPosted: Sat Nov 16, 2013 12:03 am 
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Location: The New Old West
To err is Human to forgive divine...

Case anyone misses it, Rick coined the word lofting to mean "getting whacked" as apposed to what it means to me, for example--to draw something before you build it...

But whatever...to apportion blame is to take on the roll of God and exclude one's self from the race of blundering fools we all sometimes seem to be..who's not subject to fucking up now and then?

But that's ok, what's not ok is to think you're always calling the shots...it's a risky damn sport that gets riskier as you get better, and more complacent...

There most certainly are exceptions where you're just a victim..

I don't want to get into it, but I smell agenda, and that always perks up the old keyboard

Carry-on
fo


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