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Potential safety issue with Epic Renegade kites

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soul19
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Re: Potential safety issue with Epic Renegade kites

Postby soul19 » Mon Nov 25, 2013 10:12 pm

I agree that Taut took a cheap shot at the Epic kites! The context of his statement is implied but he has left himself an out to say that he wasn't referring to the renegades in general! He likes to play the passive aggressive poster! I can't understand why he feels the need to post on here defending people who have hidden agenda's unless he has one himself! If someone had similar attacks on Naish he is quick to go on the defensive! I could only imagine his response to Dimitri if D took the time to support Naish bashers..... he definitely wouldn't have the restraint that Dimitri shows!

James

Taut what's your agenda? Mine is calling things like I see them! I have no issue calling out BS when I see it without making things personnel!

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Re: Potential safety issue with Epic Renegade kites

Postby L0KI » Mon Nov 25, 2013 11:27 pm

On a flawed design, it would likely happen on every kite or the vast majority of them.
This is clearly not the case.
This failure is obviously a case where a bladder got moved/twisted in a years use, or as a result of a small repair that was not re-installed properly (which we were told never happened).
It is not a safety issue, unless a kiter is going into deep water too far a distance from shore, ill prepared to do so.
This also not a case of the bullshite illogical story that UKSurf likes to passive aggressively tell, of the little guy getting second rate service and of secret underground materials from the factory.
Dimitri has obviously spent considerable time, at the plant, developing a relationship with the people that sew the Epic kites.
The various cloths, ropes, lines, etc come from well known industry sources who follow very strict processes for manufacturing their materials.
The kites are made with the materials spec'd and are sewn to the agreed upon specifications.
Those that choose to come up with conspiracy theories, are free to do so.

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Re: Potential safety issue with Epic Renegade kites

Postby Er Presidente » Mon Nov 25, 2013 11:40 pm

tautologies wrote:
stephk wrote:Why is this thread even have "SAFETY ISSUE" in it? Sounds like it was started by someone who was whining about a warranty claim and didn't get a free kite out of it. :argue:
The amount of times I have had to fix bladder related leaks, valve leaks and pin holes on all types of brands is incredible. If bladder issues were a safety issue, I should be dead by now!

Bladders are sensitive because they have to be light. Having a bladder not properly installed is obvious to see the first time you inflate a kite. That it happened 11 months down the road? I don't think so...
Flawed designs could make that happen delayed.


Would be nice to see what Taut would say if same issue would have happened to a Naish kite. I am sure he would say that it can never be a manufacturing issue...rider's fault of course...
Right Taut?


Anybody with a little bit of fairness would agree that coming back after 11months of usage with a problem with a bladder is a total joke.

Move on guys. Whoever hates Epic that much trying to bash them is only giving them more (good) exposure.

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Re: Potential safety issue with Epic Renegade kites

Postby UKSurf » Mon Nov 25, 2013 11:49 pm

Oldnbroken wrote:This also not a case of the bullshite illogical story that UKSurf likes to passive aggressively tell, of the little guy getting second rate service and of secret underground materials from the factory.
I dont know what you are getting so upset about OB. What I posted was perfectly factual - there is a big problem with quality control out of factories in the far east and especially China and everyone knows it (except you). And in my opinion, the larger a customer you are the less likely they are to try to f*ck with you - although that is not a guarantee they wont try and rip those off as well. I have actually received msgs on here from Dmitri regarding this which I wont repost because they are private communications. Having been to China a few times I have come to the conclusion that ripping people off is part of the culture. (NOTE: This is because of the effect of Communism in China, this is not a racist statement about Chinese people in general having a natural tendency to be corrupt).

You need to calm down a bit, try chewing on one of your kite bars and see if that helps :wink:
Last edited by UKSurf on Wed Nov 27, 2013 3:40 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Potential safety issue with Epic Renegade kites

Postby L0KI » Tue Nov 26, 2013 3:05 am

Not sure where you are seeing upset, I'm simply calling bullshite on your bullshite.
We're all well aware of some of the things going on in China, but your generalizations about what the different kite companies are getting, is just you sitting in front your computer speculating.
I imported manufactured goods from several Asian countries for ten years, some companies were honest and did a fantastic job and some were not and did not.
By the way, this is true in factories all over the world, so your racist comments about Chinese culture, are bullshite as well.....I've met crooked people from all over the world.
Just opened a nice bottle of Evodia Red, hope those Spanish vintners didn't sneak any sour grapes in there! :lol:

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Re: Potential safety issue with Epic Renegade kites

Postby SalmonSlayer » Tue Nov 26, 2013 6:06 am

Oldnbroken wrote:.I've met crooked people from all over the world.
But that does not mean that in some cultures you are not more likely to rip you off than others. I work with people from different countries.and some cultures hold honesty in higher regard than others. It is not different, but equal. To suggest otherwise is naive of intentionally blind(this is not directed at OB. it is just a general statement). I am not even saying it is wrong to be less honest. It is just the way certain cultures evolved and I deal with them accordingly. it is not about judging tham as much as just dealing with reality accordingly.

Anyway, I would have just fixed the bladder and not said a thing. if it was 1 or 2 sessions it is one thing, but after 20-30 I would assume the issue was influenced by the user error.

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Re: Potential safety issue with Epic Renegade kites

Postby tautologies » Tue Nov 26, 2013 8:40 am

ShaveTheWhales wrote:Taut - stopping wanking on here unless you can back up your comment with hard facts !!!
Nice user name :-)

All I am saying is that it would fall under warranty if there was a design flaw.
I think this is where this case is stuck OP feels is it is a matter of design many others disagree. A kite should not pop during normal use. I think an offer between cost and shipping only for the bladder seems fair to me.

I obviously don't know either way.

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Re: Potential safety issue with Epic Renegade kites

Postby tautologies » Tue Nov 26, 2013 10:17 am

soul19 wrote:I agree that Taut took a cheap shot at the Epic kites! The context of his statement is implied but he has left himself an out to say that he wasn't referring to the renegades in general! He likes to play the passive aggressive poster! I can't understand why he feels the need to post on here defending people who have hidden agenda's unless he has one himself! If someone had similar attacks on Naish he is quick to go on the defensive! I could only imagine his response to Dimitri if D took the time to support Naish bashers..... he definitely wouldn't have the restraint that Dimitri shows!

James

Taut what's your agenda? Mine is calling things like I see them! I have no issue calling out BS when I see it without making things personnel!
I think warranty is a complex issue. I do think that design is part of the manufacturing process, and if there is a design flaw then that would make it a warranty issue...I'm trying to say there are a scenario where the claim might not be entirely out of order. On the other hand, some items there is wear and tear. Me saying this does not mean I automatically am against epic. For instance how would you react if because of the pulley used on a kite the bridle snapped after using the kite 20 times....would you ask for a replacement? How about after about 30 times use? I am a bit torn, and I think it really depends on the context.

If this kite is bought in Europe it probably would make it a warranty issue regardless...but to say that what I sad was a cheapshot is laughable. I made a simple a factual statement.

A much as a like engagement, I don't get why people needs to be so defensive. Is it not possible to discuss these things without resorting to personal attacks and insinuations? Take the statement at facevalue.

Let me ask you this: if you lived a place where 2 yr warranty was the country law...would you ask for warranty if your product failed within half that time? Personally I probably would not have posted about it here tho.

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Re: Potential safety issue with Epic Renegade kites

Postby ShaveTheWhales » Tue Nov 26, 2013 11:11 am

Taut your still wanking mate - try every other kite company with your 2 year claim and see where you end up.
Can you paste for me the Epic warranty as seen on there website.... I have forgotten what Ive bought into ???

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Re: Potential safety issue with Epic Renegade kites

Postby JGTR » Tue Nov 26, 2013 11:30 am

Is it not possible to discuss these things without resorting to personal attacks and insinuations? Take the statement at facevalue.
Erm that's what this whole thread is about, you are defending the OP with his personal attack and insinuations yet aren't happy when someone else does it??

To be fair anything and everything is a warranty claim, just depends whether the manufacturer decides to pay out - we all remember the 3 generations 2007-2009 Naish Torches with the design fault in the LE that made them explode, doubt Naish warrantied any after a year despite an obvious design flaw.

The 2 year warranty is unrealistic and pretty much impossible to enforce/honour on a kite due to the amount of wear/abuse a kite is subject to during normal usage.


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