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 Post subject: Re: Potential safety issue with Epic Renegade kites
PostPosted: Tue Nov 26, 2013 7:23 pm 
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I'm just surprised this thread is still titled 'potential safety issue'. It's a beef about warranty, nothing more (and a very weak case for even that).

OP is dicing very closely with defamation on this one. Totally unnecessary and over the top reaction.


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 Post subject: Re: Potential safety issue with Epic Renegade kites
PostPosted: Tue Nov 26, 2013 8:04 pm 
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And we haven't heard Mr. Pump Me Up's opinion yet :lol:
Where is he :?:

H


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 Post subject: Re: Potential safety issue with Epic Renegade kites
PostPosted: Tue Nov 26, 2013 8:27 pm 
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Hunqi wrote:
And we haven't heard Mr. Pump Me Up's opinion yet :lol:
Where is he :?:


He is patiently waiting for the OP to have a potential safety issue with a leaking ram air cell

:wink:


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 Post subject: Re: Potential safety issue with Epic Renegade kites
PostPosted: Tue Nov 26, 2013 8:37 pm 
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SupaEZ wrote:
Hunqi wrote:
And we haven't heard Mr. Pump Me Up's opinion yet :lol:
Where is he :?:


He is patiently waiting for the OP to have a potential safety issue with a leaking ram air cell

:wink:


Nothing beats a bit off kiteforum comedy


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 Post subject: Re: Potential safety issue with Epic Renegade kites
PostPosted: Wed Nov 27, 2013 6:45 am 
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UKSurf wrote:
Chinese culture is not a race so making a generalization about its values it is not racist.
I suggest you look up the meaning of words before you use them.
Most chinese people living in china acknowledge there is a serious problem with a "culture" of ripping people off and trying to make a fast buck.
People in China are Chinese, it's a race of people.
Here's the definition of racism quoted from Wikipedia:
"Racism is generally defined as actions, practices, or beliefs that consider the human species to be divided into races with shared traits, abilities, or qualities, such as personality, intellect, morality, or other cultural behavioral characteristics"....
You deny your racism, right while you're saying racist things. :lol:
The problem you are talking about is well known, but it exists in far more places than just China.
And your little story of how the big boys get "the good stuff" and the little guys just can't, is just an underhanded shot at Epic saying (you've done it a half dozen times in several threads) that they have no means to produce a quality product because they are not as large as whatever company you choose to think is getting the "the good stuff".
You've refused to demo the Epic product when invited multiple times.
Your theories sound pretty stupid when your point of reference is just in your head.


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 Post subject: Re: Potential safety issue with Epic Renegade kites
PostPosted: Wed Nov 27, 2013 11:54 am 
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Don't me started on the Greeks ...jeez. :D :D

This thread is getting so damn annoying, please make it stop.... :cry:


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 Post subject: Re: Potential safety issue with Epic Renegade kites
PostPosted: Wed Nov 27, 2013 3:05 pm 
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Oldnbroken wrote:
Here's the definition of racism quoted from Wikipedia:
"Racism is generally defined as actions, practices, or beliefs that consider the human species to be divided into races with shared traits, abilities, or qualities, such as personality, intellect, morality, or other cultural behavioral characteristics"....


Since it has obviously upset you so much I have clarified my original post. To me saying something about a tendency of the culture of a country is not racist. I never said China was the only country in the world that suffers from corruption but the levels there are pretty high in my opinion. The reason I believe the culture in China seems to have a high level of "corruption" is the same reason in Russia - Communism.

As for my comments about Epic I can see both advantages and disadvantages to buying from a small company - and yes one of my concerns about buying from a smaller company is the manufacturing done by third parties. But as I have also said I do not believe these claims that Epic kites have inferior production because they are made at the same factory as Blade kites which seem pretty well put together to me. Again I think you are over sensitive to anyone saying anything even slightly negative about Epic.


Last edited by UKSurf on Wed Nov 27, 2013 3:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Potential safety issue with Epic Renegade kites
PostPosted: Wed Nov 27, 2013 3:47 pm 
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Haa yeah Agree WestOzy - it suks nearly as much as we did lol


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 Post subject: Re: Potential safety issue with Epic Renegade kites
PostPosted: Wed Nov 27, 2013 4:25 pm 
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Hey UKsurf,

Have you ever tried a Epic kite? I am curious as to how you would find them as you seem to be a straight shooter and I would find your comments to be informative! I for one had avoided trying an Epic kite as I wasn't a fan of the Eclipse kites….I thought that it would be same crap different pile! A guy was selling a 3g 10m screamer for dirt cheap and I figured that the worse that would happen is that I would sell it off for what I paid for it (with getting to finally see if it was all hype)! My first impression was that this was nothing like the Eclipse kites that I had in the past and that it was quite good. Well I have put many sessions on this kite and I can say with all honesty that it is one of the best kites I have owned. I currently have Ozone C4 kites and I am hoping to shortly have a go on the Judge to see if I will be making the switch over. At the end of the day I want to ride the best gear for me and right now it is the C4 with the 10m screamer. I have high hopes that the Judge will be that good and when I finally demo this kite I will have an honest review to follow.

James


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 Post subject: Re: Potential safety issue with Epic Renegade kites
PostPosted: Wed Nov 27, 2013 5:51 pm 
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James,
You should re-read this post from another topic, there's really no better way to summarize it about Epic's gear quality:

jakster4 wrote:
Kites-
My first epic kite was a 2010 screamer 7m. I bought it used of Dimitri and it was did have some good power. I used it in high winds and the kite boosts high. But it is also extremely twitchy and sits very forward in the window. I also owned a 9m and 14m 2011 screamer. The 9m was my favorite. It was fast and had a lot of power. I could hold down a ton of power with it, but it was also twitchy. Its not a good kite to unhook on. If you are into just boosting high and jumping it is defiantly a good kite. It rips you right out of the water. I feel like the kite likes to be flown hooked in. They all had light bar pressure. I liked the 14m because it turned really fast for that size and it did jump well. But again, unhooked was not the best. Overall I enjoyed the kites for boosting big and cruising around fast. The inflation system was old style and took a while to pump up.

The canopy material of the 7m wore very quickly and the quality was poor. I was so disappointed. I barely used it and it degraded quicker than any kite I have owned. I have also had issues with the 9m. One time I was out riding, jumped, the kite inverted, rolled on it self and a line sliced the canopy material in half. It was a hefty repair. Another time when I was self-launching the 14m and the main safety randomly released and sent the kite flying down the beach. It got a bunch of pinholes and the canopy material ripped easily. I’ve gone through two bladders and it has been the biggest pain in the ass to repair. I don’t think its fair to make claims that epic kites are bomb proof and the best quality out there because they are not. They are decent. I would say they are average quality. But in my 8 years of kiting I have flown liquid force, best and epic kites and I have had more problems with my epic kites than any other brand. It seems there’s always a hole, something’s leaking or breaking. The quality is just average and there were for sure some issues with the older models.

Boards-
I have a droid and have tried the oxygen. The liked the oxygen and it got me going in light wind and was nice because it felt like a smaller board. It was also pretty light. The droid was just average. It is pretty flexy and ate chop well. It got the job done but I wasn’t raving about it or didn’t love it. The neoprene like material under the foot straps tore when I opened them up to adjust them and they just seem like poor quality. The bottom foot pads are comfortable but I hate the straps. They scraped up my toes really bad after long days of riding.

Bar-
I have had both the 2010 black bar and the newer 3g white bar. The bar is average at best. The black bar is thinner and the grip damaged very easily. The 3g bar was a little thicker and had a nice feel, but it also got chewed up easily. The old blade safety release is hairy and low quality. It released on me a few times by accident while I was launching my kite and it put me in a few scary situations. Once time I was self-launching and it released, and severely damaged my kite. The sharp edge on it also tore up the bar when winding up the line. I was always worried what would happened it accidently released in the middle of a big jump. I never had any issues with the depower strap slipping like some other have wrote. But for the average build of the bar I don’t think it worth the high price that they charge for it. The bar does its job, but it is just an average bar. Nothing fancy. I wouldn’t say it’s the “best” design ever or “best” quality ever, because its not. It’s just average. Basically they just chose a bunch of parts from other brands and formed it into their own bar.

The new release system on the 4g looks nice, however it just seems to be just a copy from other brands that have had the similar system out for a while. And the new 4g bar seems to be the same 3g bar just with the new safety release. In my eyes the bar is just average and gets the job done. There is so much hype about “the best bar ever blah blah” I just find it kind of annoying at this point. I personally think that it looks a little cheap compared to brands like Best, North and Cabrinha who put more money into the design/production process.



Conclusion-
I have owned some screamers and a couple epic boards and bought them with my own money. I’m not sponsored by any brand and am just an average rider. Sometimes I like boosting big and sometimes I like to ride boots. I love Dimitri’s passion and enthusiasm for the sport. I also love all the videos because he actually shows the kites flying and people riding. Rather than a 5 min intro of some team rider waking up and eating breakfast and walking to the beach. He has always been good with responding to emails and helping out. But I have become increasingly irritated by the hype and crazy claims. I feel that Epic gear is just average. I personally think that some of it just looks a little cheap and some of it is just cheap. And I also feel that the owner of the company posting personal emails from customers over and over is a little corny. We get you love the sport and love your company but all the hype and exaggerations and “best ever” claims are just over the top annoying at this point. The "best bar ever" and “the best quick release ever” and the "best quality kites ever" its just not true. If epic is a “one man” show there is no way that one man can do as much testing/designing/innovation as the larger brands with a slew of team riders and design team. It just doesn’t add up - and it shows in the products. It seems more like Epic just watches what other brand do first, then takes what he thinks is best and works those ideas into his products.


Epic has the renegade and screamer since they started out. I mean how much have these kites really changed over the years? Sure there have been some tweaks and some minor changes, but I feel like mostly its just a change of new graphics and maybe a different pulley set up. And every year they have magically created the “best kite ever”??? For what you get, the prices of all the gear should be lower. It’s not a premium brand like its hyped up to be.


I have been trying to sell my old epic kites but the resale is just horrible. I feel like I spent so much money on it and now I can’t even sell them. Literally no one wants them. I have easily sold my old best and liquid force gear, but getting rid of my epic gear has been extremely challenging and I feel like at this point I just wasted a bunch of money. There is no second hand value.


Since, I have purchased a Carbinha Switchblade and some Cabrinha boards. I couldn’t be happier. I feel like the build quality is better and it just feels more solid. It feels so much more reliable in the air and doesn’t sit so far up in the window. Good bar pressure and quick responsive turning. Good boost and feel. I also think that the bar is the best one I have ever owned. I love the grip, the soft bar ends and the trimming system. It feels so much more comfortable and I have confidence that it won’t randomly release. It’s super clean and works well. I will now be moving forward with Cabrinha gear .

Also sadly I just don’t want to be associated with a company like this that hypes so much on the forum and gets into all silly arguments with people of the forum. It’s a little immature. There’s no need for the owner of a supposedly “top quality” company to post personal emails or make all these crazy claims – just let the products speak for themselves. I gave Epic a shot and did like the kites for boosting. But that is about it. I have had too many headaches with repairs and things breaking, that I am just done. The quality and reliability for me was just not there.I just feel like there too much hype and exaggerations.


Nobody says that your Screamer 10m is a bad kite, like i've sad a good while ago, mr. D makes nicely-flying kites, but in case of Epic, terms like "flies well" and "well made" don't quite go together.

You should check out the gear from top market players like Cabrinha, Core, F-One or North just to see what better-made kites are made of.

The price at which you've got your 10m is a good indicator about the re-sale value of Epic gear, basically you have to be a complete idiot to buy these brand new (especially considering the 90-days good for nothing warranty) unless you're planning to ride these kites to shreds. And even then, considering Epic's retail pricing - there's better gear out there for less! I've learned it the hard way.


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