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Are Switch kites getting any better?

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ciscokitesurfer
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Re: Are Switch kites getting any better?

Postby ciscokitesurfer » Sun Dec 01, 2013 12:08 am

I fly different kites all the time... I will give a switch a go.... will report back in one year.

jespin4845
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Re: Are Switch kites getting any better?

Postby jespin4845 » Sun Dec 01, 2013 12:38 am

i had a 13m element v1 and a 14m nitro v2, between those two kites themselves the quality of kite has improved greatly...i sold both because i haven't found the perfect kite for 12-20k, i learned to kite on the element and it was a great kite for that, otherwise the medium and smaller kites I have are perfect for me no from another brand for now...i ended up getting a 12m switchblade because it was a more refined kite and was park and ride/boost kite i wanted, the 14m was too big and if i were to get a nitro v3 it would be a 12m

with the v3 nitro things might change and it might be the most refined kite and blow all other 12m's out of the water for me...but yes there was small quirks from each kite that needed to be ironed out, thing about switch is that they listen so far and do what the customer wants

one thing is for sure is that the upwind on both those kites were superb, second to none, which is kind of why i want a nitro for my big kite

anyways, in my opinion they are getting better, switch is a young company compared to cabrinha or other kites, the way these kite companies keep adding 100 bucks to msrp every year switch is becoming more appealing and whats more appealing is that people that don't even fly their kites are using their parts for bars/lines/bladders..etc

Faxie
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Re: Are Switch kites getting any better?

Postby Faxie » Sun Dec 01, 2013 3:09 am

Define 'flying better'....

Is it 'objectively better in all aspects' of 'more to your taste' ? :roll:

You get what you pay for.... a lot of expensive demo days, alot of advertising in magazines, alot of expensive team riders, of lot of distributing/retailing ...

But shure, feel good about your 'top brand'.... you have to justify the high price for yourself off course :thumb:

Build quality is on par with North/Ozone/Core/Cabrinha, and better then for instance F-One/Slingshot/Naish (talking about overrated brands... )

I've owned 2 Bandits (3 and 4), and nursed them like babies (rinsing after almost every session, and checking for pinholes) just to have them both ripped in half after a pussy crash. So much for quality :roll:

Only thing I don't really like with the E V1 is the low wind performance. But on the other hand, the high end is great.

eree
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Re: Are Switch kites getting any better?

Postby eree » Sun Dec 01, 2013 6:53 pm

Faxie wrote:Define 'flying better'....
Is it 'objectively better in all aspects' of 'more to your taste'?
oh no, it is most subjective, but to be understandable new kite must do better or at least must perform at same level your previous favorite kite did
Faxie wrote:You get what you pay for.... a lot of expensive demo days, alot of advertising in magazines, alot of expensive team riders, of lot of distributing/retailing ...
But shure, feel good about your 'top brand'.... you have to justify the high price for yourself off course
i can answer you in the same manner: ...feel good about your "cheap brand"... you have to justify the low price to others by praising its either imaginary high performance or build quality or whatever else qualities...
Faxie wrote:Build quality is on par with North/Ozone/Core/Cabrinha, and better then for instance F-One/Slingshot/Naish (talking about overrated brands... )
I've owned 2 Bandits (3 and 4), and nursed them like babies (rinsing after almost every session, and checking for pinholes) just to have them both ripped in half after a pussy crash. So much for quality
i know you are right about this. but how did i find it out? to know about it i had to buy the switch kite and just test them for free and see and touch the other brands kites on the test days organized by the retailers. because switches web site promise you heaven, but reality is different thing.
Faxie wrote:Only thing I don't really like with the E V1 is the low wind performance. But on the other hand, the high end is great.
yes, i liked the N1 speed on the flat, but otherwise it was big disappointment.
seams like everybody who has purchased the switch kite pretty quickly found some flaw(s) in it and sold it shortly.

in my opinion switch is manufacturing quality product, but they making too specialized kites for too narrow sector of the target groups. some times it is just schizophrenic - on the one side their kites are suitable mostly for light weight kiters, mostly beginners, on the other side bar pressure is too heavy and the kite handling is too complicated for the beginner.
they knew pulleys (and/or sliders) are not popular already when they started, but they still made kites with pulleys and later with sliders. it took them three generations (versions) of kites to find it out.
it took them generation to find out people don't like heavy bars and slow turning kites. how many generations there must past to them to understand they must make kites for every day kiters who kite at real world choppy water gusty wind kite spots? not for some pro riders at nice mirror-flat locations with steady winds in NZ... they narrow they target group for themselves. people who had to sell once purchased switch kite not prone to buy another one from them any time soon. they still showing on their map four "team riders" for my country, but i know for a fact that at least two of them are no longer ride or have switch kites. i liked switches business model. but i don't trust them any more.

so i say, if you are marketing your product only by on-line shop be at least honest about your product, have some responsibility, advertize your goods honestly. and you'll not regret it.


finally, about the pricing:
245€ for the paint-over switch bar? does not 35% rise sound a little steep for just 3g?

at that pace in a couple of years traditional brands don't have to worry about "low price" kites any more...

good luck...

plummet
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Re: Are Switch kites getting any better?

Postby plummet » Sun Dec 01, 2013 7:07 pm

An interesting discussion.

So my thoughts appear to be emulated by others.

Some happy with the product, the majority on this thread have tried and moved on. Sounds like the price is moving up.... so too is the quality.

Faxie
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Local Beach: Netherlands. Maasvlakte, Slufter, Scheveningen, Domburg, Rilland, Brouwersdam, Ouddorp, Binnenschelde, Vrouwenpolder, Oostvoorne, Rockanje, Grevelingen, Borssele.
Style: Freeride, freestyle, wave.
Gear: Switch Helium V1 18m Element V3 13m-7m V4 9m-5m Legacy V1 10m-14m Slingshot Fuel 2005
Switch MJComp V2 136x41.5 Firewire Hellrazor 6.1 timbertek Shinn Shinnster Nobile 555 125x38
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Re: Are Switch kites getting any better?

Postby Faxie » Sun Dec 01, 2013 8:26 pm

eree wrote:
Faxie wrote:Define 'flying better'....
Is it 'objectively better in all aspects' of 'more to your taste'?
oh no, it is most subjective, but to be understandable new kite must do better or at least must perform at same level your previous favorite kite did
Faxie wrote:You get what you pay for.... a lot of expensive demo days, alot of advertising in magazines, alot of expensive team riders, of lot of distributing/retailing ...
But shure, feel good about your 'top brand'.... you have to justify the high price for yourself off course
i can answer you in the same manner: ...feel good about your "cheap brand"... you have to justify the low price to others by praising its either imaginary high performance or build quality or whatever else qualities...
Faxie wrote:Build quality is on par with North/Ozone/Core/Cabrinha, and better then for instance F-One/Slingshot/Naish (talking about overrated brands... )
I've owned 2 Bandits (3 and 4), and nursed them like babies (rinsing after almost every session, and checking for pinholes) just to have them both ripped in half after a pussy crash. So much for quality
i know you are right about this. but how did i find it out? to know about it i had to buy the switch kite and just test them for free and see and touch the other brands kites on the test days organized by the retailers. because switches web site promise you heaven, but reality is different thing.
Faxie wrote:Only thing I don't really like with the E V1 is the low wind performance. But on the other hand, the high end is great.
yes, i liked the N1 speed on the flat, but otherwise it was big disappointment.
seams like everybody who has purchased the switch kite pretty quickly found some flaw(s) in it and sold it shortly.

in my opinion switch is manufacturing quality product, but they making too specialized kites for too narrow sector of the target groups. some times it is just schizophrenic - on the one side their kites are suitable mostly for light weight kiters, mostly beginners, on the other side bar pressure is too heavy and the kite handling is too complicated for the beginner.
they knew pulleys (and/or sliders) are not popular already when they started, but they still made kites with pulleys and later with sliders. it took them three generations (versions) of kites to find it out.
it took them generation to find out people don't like heavy bars and slow turning kites. how many generations there must past to them to understand they must make kites for every day kiters who kite at real world choppy water gusty wind kite spots? not for some pro riders at nice mirror-flat locations with steady winds in NZ... they narrow they target group for themselves. people who had to sell once purchased switch kite not prone to buy another one from them any time soon. they still showing on their map four "team riders" for my country, but i know for a fact that at least two of them are no longer ride or have switch kites. i liked switches business model. but i don't trust them any more.

so i say, if you are marketing your product only by on-line shop be at least honest about your product, have some responsibility, advertize your goods honestly. and you'll not regret it.


finally, about the pricing:
245€ for the paint-over switch bar? does not 35% rise sound a little steep for just 3g?

at that pace in a couple of years traditional brands don't have to worry about "low price" kites any more...

good luck...
Why should I justify the low price? The quality and performance is not imaginary :lol:

And you don't have to buy the kites to test them. If you do, that's a risk you take.

But they shouldn't keep raising the price, I agree. That way they will lose their benefits compared to other brands.

The CL of the bar is repainted (maybe lighter as well, but I'm not sure about that yet), and I think the organiser is the same as well. The rest is all brand new...

On a sidenote: An online only brand that still offers guarantee can't afford to sell crappy kites, because the costs for al the returns would be skyhigh.

And I like high bar pressure. Low pressure is for pussies :lol: 8)

plummet
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Re: Are Switch kites getting any better?

Postby plummet » Sun Dec 01, 2013 9:40 pm

Faxie wrote:
Why should I justify the low price? The quality and performance is not imaginary :lol:

And you don't have to buy the kites to test them. If you do, that's a risk you take.

But they shouldn't keep raising the price, I agree. That way they will lose their benefits compared to other brands.

The CL of the bar is repainted (maybe lighter as well, but I'm not sure about that yet), and I think the organiser is the same as well. The rest is all brand new...

On a sidenote: An online only brand that still offers guarantee can't afford to sell crappy kites, because the costs for al the returns would be skyhigh.

And I like high bar pressure. Low pressure is for pussies :lol: 8)
Are you a "team rider" faxie? or are you a stoked guy who paid full retail for the kites? you sound like a "team rider".

wetdog
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Re: Are Switch kites getting any better?

Postby wetdog » Sun Dec 01, 2013 9:46 pm

Faxie wrote: Build quality is on par with North/Ozone/Core/Cabrinha, and better then for instance F-One/Slingshot/Naish (talking about overrated brands... )

I've owned 2 Bandits (3 and 4), and nursed them like babies (rinsing after almost every session, and checking for pinholes) just to have them both ripped in half after a pussy crash. So much for quality :roll:
I wouldn't say slingshot build quality is overrated. Agree about F-one though.

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Re: Are Switch kites getting any better?

Postby naishdude » Sun Dec 01, 2013 10:53 pm

plummet wrote:Ok before I start this is not a Switch bashing exercise. Its an observation of what has happened at my local.

I have this theory that you pay for what you get. If its cheaper you sacrifice something to make it cheaper. Quality, performance and or service.

The Switch business model by its very nature means its service level is worse. Online companies cannot give the service level a bricks and mortar shop can provide.

When Switch was released a bunch of guys bought them at my local. For a while there it was the most common brand to see on the beach. Then one by one the guys that bought those kites sold them and replaced them with more a expensive kite from one of the top brands.

Intrigued by why these guys sold these kites typically after one season and went back to more expensive brands I asked the question. The typical answer was that their new kite flew so much better than the Switch It was worth paying the extra to get better performance.

On a side note. The kite brand I have seen torn to shreds by the wavesthe most is Switch kites. I put this down to the theory they newbies would tend to by switch Chasing a bargan, So there are more inexperienced people riding Switch kites. therefore they are more likely to crash/damage them.

So.... My theory still stands.
Low cost = a reduction in performance or quality and or service.

So from my observations there is a reduction in performance and a reduction in service.

Righto....

Are Siwtch getting better? Will they be like Hyundai? 10 years ago nobody wanted to by a Hyundai as there were low quality crappy cars. Now they are high quality and many people would want to buy one. But as the quality increased so has the price.

So here is my question to guys who have flown switch and compared them to other brands. What is your impression? is the next generation of switch kites better? is there still a performance gap.

Lastly. If you are a switch team rider and get discounted gear please remain silent. Your opinions will be bias. I want to here from guys who do not get a discount and have paid there hard earned cash at full price to buy these kites.
Well l am a Switch TR from the first moment they came in the picture.
There is one simple unbiased answer to your question, test them yourself, and then you are sure there is nobody influencing you...simple and clear...no doubts 8-)
Dude :cool2:

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Re: Are Switch kites getting any better?

Postby UKSurf » Mon Dec 02, 2013 12:18 am

The manufacturing and building quality of Switch is very good. The only thing I am not 100% sure on is their designs which seem to fly differently from other kites I have tried. This might have changed with the V2 Element and V3 Nitro but I had a hard time adjusting to the Element. I found it very hard to get decent jumps on, it seemed to want to rip me off my edge. I think what switch should have done was take popular models like the Fone Bandit North Rebel etc and based their designs on what is popular and works well rather than going off and doing some original designs.


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