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Are Switch kites getting any better?

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tegirinenashi
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Re: Are Switch kites getting any better?

Postby tegirinenashi » Thu Nov 09, 2017 5:32 pm

tautologies wrote:
Thu Nov 09, 2017 3:24 pm
...Only if they have a R&D team. It is not good for the industry if they the same designer that designs for multiple other brands IMO. KB is still in early stages of development and a good innovation drive is critical for kite development IMO...
Excuse me, but this is exactly what happened during the bow kite revolution. Cabrinha took Legaignoux design and implemented it in their product. For that matter, do people even know Cabrinha designer name?

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Re: Are Switch kites getting any better?

Postby Da Yoda » Thu Nov 09, 2017 5:40 pm

tegirinenashi wrote:
Thu Nov 09, 2017 5:32 pm
For that matter, do people even know Cabrinha designer name?
Pat Goodman
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n98pnCwIY4I

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Re: Are Switch kites getting any better?

Postby tautologies » Thu Nov 09, 2017 6:38 pm

tegirinenashi wrote:
Thu Nov 09, 2017 5:32 pm
Excuse me, but this is exactly what happened during the bow kite revolution. Cabrinha took Legaignoux design and implemented it in their product. For that matter, do people even know Cabrinha designer name?
I know a few of their names yes...also a few of their previous designers, one of which is a great kiteboarder. I do not even ride their kites.
Secondly I am not sure how using a Leg. starting design to develop a new line of kites relate to not having an R&D dept. Clearly you must have noticed a difference between kites now and in 2006???

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Re: Are Switch kites getting any better?

Postby tegirinenashi » Thu Nov 09, 2017 10:55 pm

tautologies wrote:
Thu Nov 09, 2017 6:38 pm
...Clearly you must have noticed a difference between kites now and in 2006???
Depends on the brand. For example, Switch Nitros were so bad in their versions 1 and 2 that everything after that was an improvement. However, Cabrinha Switchblade is the same old proven shape which they got right 9 generations back. Same for the Best: they nailed it with Waroo, and everything after that was clutching at straws. Taboo -- waroo with 6 struts; TS -- waroo with one pump, etc.

Long time ago there was a joke about toyota making a single car model -- Camry. The little version of Camry was called Corolla. The bigger Camry was called Avalon, and so on. Keep in mind that cars are much more sophisticated products compared to kites.

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Re: Are Switch kites getting any better?

Postby kitexpert » Thu Nov 09, 2017 11:55 pm

AFAIK first strutless kites came from Airush, but I'm not sure if they were the first. I think it was about 2010 when I saw first Zero prototypes.

Straight stick "simplest bars" were around long long time before BRM even existed. There is however some original thinking how BRM depower/QR and kite attachment to harness is done. Drawbacks are there's no unhooking and no compatibility to normal equipment. Latter prevented my own Cloud test couple of years ago, it would've been too much hassle to change.

I've seen most if not all of Gregs youtube videos and I think I can see what kind of designer he is. He is self-taught man with his own strong view how he wants his kites and he is apparently succeeded well to have them like that. No doubt they are good kites for freeride hf and with his wonderful hf skills Greg does remarkable work marketing them.

Inventions to take struts off and to make kite airfoil quite flat and to make kite simple (light weight) are not very deep, but if and when they work well for some use it is fine. Design wise I feel BRM has done its work - you can't take any more struts off or make Clouds lighter (without some exotic materials). And again, changing material to lighter weight is not much of design work.

I immediately see some a bit hard to justify details when I googled a Cloud. Bridle has four lines cascaded together and panels at the wingtips are very thin. Looks like there is a panel for every LE segment. Why? I'm not saying these are at all critical things in good or bad, but still first one looks for me sloppy design and second unnecessary parts in kite.

I had made traction kites for about ten years when BRM started.

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Re: Are Switch kites getting any better?

Postby marlboroughman » Fri Nov 10, 2017 2:05 am

I have a mixed feelings about what is happening at Switch. On one hand Bill H is such a good designer. On the other my Nitros and Elements are so good I will be fine if they don't change them at all for years to come. I think we are at the point where every day kiteboarder is so disinterested with what is going on in the pro circuit that if the guy like Bill decided to design kites out of his office, order them in China and sell them on EBay or something without all the noise he would be successful. New business model?

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Re: Are Switch kites getting any better?

Postby topmick » Fri Nov 10, 2017 8:44 am

Imo Switch kites are definitely getting better, I've only had the Element4 & now E5,s & there is a very noticeable improvement.
I've previously owned Ozone/North/Naish/Cabrinha/Airush /Best & BRM kites & I think Switch kites are just as good in quality & performance but at a more reasonable price.
My experience with Switch customer service has been outstanding & besides the enjoyment I get from using their products makes me feel loyal to their brand.
I know it's hard to find a demo but if you can, try one for yourself.
Last edited by topmick on Fri Nov 10, 2017 10:18 am, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: Are Switch kites getting any better?

Postby rynhardt » Fri Nov 10, 2017 9:24 am

kitexpert wrote:
Thu Nov 09, 2017 11:55 pm
AFAIK first strutless kites came from Airush, but I'm not sure if they were the first. I think it was about 2010 when I saw first Zero prototypes.

Straight stick "simplest bars" were around long long time before BRM even existed. There is however some original thinking how BRM depower/QR and kite attachment to harness is done. Drawbacks are there's no unhooking and no compatibility to normal equipment. Latter prevented my own Cloud test couple of years ago, it would've been too much hassle to change.

I've seen most if not all of Gregs youtube videos and I think I can see what kind of designer he is. He is self-taught man with his own strong view how he wants his kites and he is apparently succeeded well to have them like that. No doubt they are good kites for freeride hf and with his wonderful hf skills Greg does remarkable work marketing them.

Inventions to take struts off and to make kite airfoil quite flat and to make kite simple (light weight) are not very deep, but if and when they work well for some use it is fine. Design wise I feel BRM has done its work - you can't take any more struts off or make Clouds lighter (without some exotic materials). And again, changing material to lighter weight is not much of design work.

I immediately see some a bit hard to justify details when I googled a Cloud. Bridle has four lines cascaded together and panels at the wingtips are very thin. Looks like there is a panel for every LE segment. Why? I'm not saying these are at all critical things in good or bad, but still first one looks for me sloppy design and second unnecessary parts in kite.

I had made traction kites for about ten years when BRM started.
I'm no design expert, but Greg has managed to create an amazing product in spite of the uh sloppy design and unnecessary parts.
The fact that it has no struts is a byproduct of his design goals, not because he set out to create a strutless kite. Any comparison with other strutless kites are kinda pointless, because their design goals were different.
This may be why his product has been so successful - he was pursuing an outcomes-based goal, not a design goal.

Would you mind telling us which kites you've been involved with? Maybe I've ridden one!

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Re: Are Switch kites getting any better?

Postby topmick » Fri Nov 10, 2017 12:42 pm

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