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 Post subject: Re: New BRM Cloud Bridle Setup - Your Experience?
PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2014 9:42 am 
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Joined: Mon Jan 20, 2014 11:30 am
Posts: 1
Hello,
I just registered to give some feedback on this modification and a bit on the Cloud. Please keep in mind that I am still on a steep learning curve and that I have only tested the kites mentioned in this post (and a F-One Trust 7m2 in Brazil last November (25 to 30 knts), but that wasn't even the same sport! :)).
I've only been kiting for a year and a half, usually in pretty light wind (9 to 15 knts typically, sometimes up to 20knts, 35°C) in flat/choppy water. I (85kg) started with a 14m2 2012 Evo with which I started to grow frustrated (heavy, so bad low wind relaunch and high bar pressure in higher winds, wind range not covering the usual conditions). So in April I decided to buy a 17m2 and a 12m2 (Blade Trigger) while selling the 14m2.

I debated between a Cloud and a Fat Lady, ended up choosing the Cloud (smaller to carry, cheaper and I like testing odd ideas).
The kite doesn't take much time getting used to, it has a very sane behaviour in the low end (difficult to drop in the water, very good relaunch ability as long as it is leading edge down).It turns quite fast, faster than the 14m2 Evo. The kite stays "back" in the window so upwind is rather physical on the legs, I'd say on par with the Evo and worse than the Trigger.
Where I kite the wind usually starts around midday and picks up gradually. I almost never go out on the 12m2 at first and most of the times the wind isn't strong enough to switch to the 12m2 (I need 14-15 knts).
My issue with the Cloud was its high end, I was getting overpowered around 13 knts, bar pressure increased a lot and, if I went too fast (not even that fast), the kite started to pull like a truck as if on a rail (very hard to stop...).
I was about ready to give up and buy a Fat Lady (even though I never tried it, it seemed to fulfill my desire for an easy to jump LW kite that would overlap nicely with my 12m2) when Greg posted the instructions for the modified bridling.

Following his instructions is super easy and reversible. I've only had three sessions with the modified kite. The first was quite light, I was the only one of my group to go upwind. The kite's low end didn't seem negatively affected by the mod.
The following day the wind started around 11knts and ended around 17knts. I was able to keep having fun up to apx 15knts and then I switched to the 12. I spent all my time on the Cloud trying to jump as high as I could and I feel that the handling in the high end has much improved, as well as jumping ability. I only experienced this "on the rails" feeling once, whereas I think without the mod I would have been struggling against the kite, unable to try any jumps. Or is it my technique that has suddenly improved to a point where I can better master the kite?
The third day out, the wind was a bit less so I stayed on the Cloud and had fun practicing popping without ever being bothered by the kite (actually the kite stays rather "in front" of the kiter so it is probably quite good at popping).

Of course, estimating the impact of the modification is difficult, I'd have to kite with both modified and unmodified Clouds back to back within the same session. What I can say is that I no longer leave the spot frustrated but thinking of what I want to try next time, also the handling seems more direct/reactive. So thank you Greg for the instructions, I won't be going back! Great customer support!
Do I still believe I made the right choice? The Fat Lady does still feel (based on forum feedback and the behavior of my 12m2 Trigger) like a better option for someone like me (intermediate beginner) who mainly wants to progress and nail new tricks, but I am now having a lot of fun on the modified Cloud so I won't change!

The canopy doesn't fill out as perfectly as with the original bridling, I noticed some slight luffing just behind the corners. This shows that the kite wasn't made whith this bridling in mind. This, combined with the smaller leading edge diameter of the Cloud 2 has me quite optimistic on its flying behavior (better high end and easier to go upwind??).

So here was my feed back, for what it's worth.

Cheers,
Mathieu


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 Post subject: Re: New BRM Cloud Bridle Setup - Your Experience?
PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2014 10:56 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jun 05, 2003 3:37 am
Posts: 2361
Here is my impression of the 17m Cloud C1 bridle modification, which I answered a PM about as below:
====
Tried it yesterday.
It works. I think it extends the range a little bit. It changes the way the kite luffs.
Now it seems the luffing starts closer to the wingtips.
The feeling of vibration in the bar does not start as soon I think.
I rode it for 45 minutes in wind 15 knots+. It was still overpowered, but more manageable than before. With the original bridle I would have stopped sooner I think.
The turning seems faster than before, or at least as fast.
The canopy is still stable, but when extremely depowered (maximum bar out and maximum trim), it luffs and deforms a bit more, even the LE deforms a little, but it did not invert.
I didn't try single line safety release or relaunching this time.
The parts removed make the kite lighter (about 180g).
Maybe this will help in the light wind.
The bridle modification will not make the 17 your kite to choose for 15-20 knots, unless you are strong and heavy. But it will make it more fun in 15 knots I think. For me this is good because often my wind may start at 8-10 knots, and I don't know if it will build to 12, or 15.
Give it a try if you like.
Good luck!
====
To this I'll add I didn't notice a big impact on jumping or upwind. Upwind was still great, jumping still gentle and gliding. Though perhaps the slightly faster turning makes it easier to send the kite hard. When the wind occasionally dropped to 12 or so for a few minutes, the kite behaved pretty much the same as original.
EDIT: I'll also add this was on the tail end of a 3h session in 39-40F water with 3mm gloves, in other words my arms and grip were tired. It really does make it a bit more comfortable overpowered. BTW my weight =82kg
Look forward to trying it out again.
It does have the feel of a tweak, rather than "oem."
I'm ok with that. 8)


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 Post subject: Re: New BRM Cloud Bridle Setup - Your Experience?
PostPosted: Sun Jan 26, 2014 2:04 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jul 24, 2005 6:39 pm
Posts: 2955
Another report on the Cloud 1 with Greg's modified bridle from the German forum.

http://translate.google.co.uk/translate ... 6bih%3D705


Last edited by ronnie on Thu Feb 20, 2014 10:06 am, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: New BRM Cloud Bridle Setup - Your Experience?
PostPosted: Wed Jan 29, 2014 6:15 am 
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Joined: Fri Dec 12, 2008 2:46 am
Posts: 106
Location: San Diego
I have also have tried the new bridle setup on waves with the wind ranging from 12 mph to 16 mph. I thought I was a little overpower but it still drifted very nicely when I would go down the line, and turned as fast as before. If it had been the original bridal setup I would not have even put the 17 Cloud up in this wind range. I would have been pulled out of the waves. If the wind still gets up to that range I will put up the 13 Cloud because it just turns faster and I don't feel overpowered at all. If it is about 10-12 mph I will put up the 17 and not worried about getting way overpowered like before.


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 Post subject: Re: New BRM Cloud Bridle Setup - Your Experience?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 19, 2014 4:13 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jul 10, 2013 1:12 pm
Posts: 43
Well, I switched back to the original bridle setup. The new bridle seems to take more air pressure to keep the LE stable. Fast passes through the power zone was causing buckling of the wing tip portion of the LE. Keep in mind, I didn't follow Gregs instructions but made my own bridle matching the measurement as close as possible. My brother changed over his bridle per the instruction but has also changed it back.

I think the bridle lengths of the conversion are a compromise to enable the use of existing parts. It would be interesting to know exact optimum lengths for the bridle components. I feel the lighter simplified bridle is the way to go but the current segment lengths are not exactly correct.


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 Post subject: Re: New BRM Cloud Bridle Setup - Your Experience?
PostPosted: Sat Feb 22, 2014 12:43 pm 
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Joined: Sat Feb 18, 2012 4:21 am
Posts: 72
and there in lies the rub.^
Having been working with another designer of kites for the last several seasons I have been testing bridles. With wing and bridle geometry millimeters make a big difference. I am always stunned how a kite can react with a movement of a few mils in either direction on how the connection points are met, or where the bridle is attached to to the leading edge. I think Greg will keep tuning this and by next year it will improve again.....this is based on how well he was worked on this design so far, and also my experience on working with another designer who is always searching for more. The great thing is that he is sharing improvements, and not demanding that you buy next years kite for better results....and this is the same philosophy as the designer I have been working with. I applaud this approach.


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 Post subject: Re: New BRM Cloud Bridle Setup - Your Experience?
PostPosted: Sat Feb 22, 2014 2:08 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jun 14, 2013 1:42 am
Posts: 14
Location: Fort Pierce, FL
BWD wrote:
While step 5 reads

I'd be remiss if I didn't say I'm less excited about the new prices though...


I see that the 17m C2 is $1550, how much was the 17m C1?


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 Post subject: Re: New BRM Cloud Bridle Setup - Your Experience?
PostPosted: Sat Feb 22, 2014 3:21 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jun 05, 2003 3:37 am
Posts: 2361
same as the c2 7m, $1100.
Now you get almost 42% of the kite for your money!
I'm sure it is still a good product, in fact probably better than ever.
But the intro pricing strategy imho ought to have been promoted as such in the first place.
Anyway, ultimately the price is still in the ballpark of other kites, so it wouldn't be fair to judge BRM harshly.
But if kites were truly a $ per pound commodity, BRM might have some issues.
Just have to save a few more $ for the next one I guess...


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 Post subject: Re: New BRM Cloud Bridle Setup - Your Experience?
PostPosted: Sat Feb 22, 2014 5:07 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jun 14, 2013 1:42 am
Posts: 14
Location: Fort Pierce, FL
BWD wrote:
same as the c2 7m, $1100.
Anyway, ultimately the price is still in the ballpark of other kites, so it wouldn't be fair to judge BRM harshly.
But if kites were truly a $ per pound commodity, BRM might have some issues.


Yeah, and since they are going head to head with the big boys, they better be much better since they don't have the same marketing power. Very curious to see what the average Joes think about it, but it's going to be tough to beat the OR Flite, which is $1860 with bar.
Sorry to go off the thread's subject.


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 Post subject: Re: New BRM Cloud Bridle Setup - Your Experience?
PostPosted: Sat Feb 22, 2014 5:48 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jun 05, 2003 3:37 am
Posts: 2361
Well, they are depending on kites not being a per-pound commodity like hamburger.
Like other tech gear, things often head in the opposite direction.
Innovative design and the will to make something work that others haven't figured out, or gave up on, seems to be the program.
Better is in the eye of the beholder, anyway.
However, regarding the flite, it weighed 4.7kg when last measured I believe.
C1 cloud was 3.2kg with pulley bridle, about 3 with modified bridle, C2 I think they claim 2.75kg.
That's got to count for something in light wind, eh?
I think it counts for a knot or two against other kites with the same 17m area, based on same day performance last summer with the "heavy" bridle, comparing to a turbine and a zephyr.


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