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 Post subject: Re: Need tips for self-landing
PostPosted: Wed Jan 22, 2014 1:42 pm 
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Thanks for the replies all.

Yes I do know how to self rescue, but I was hoping for a better way to self land.

I COULD use a beach goer but generally I stay as far away from non-kiters as possible when landing.

Wind conditions were supposed to be in the 20s mph range, ideal for my 12m kite. After launch they ramped up steadily to the 30s. Tbh I didn't realize just how strong the winds had become until I started getting picked up off the water without doing any kind of kite work to generate power. At that point I landed. I was asking for tips for landing in those conditions not flying as I agree, it gets dangerous then. You guys need to read the post before flying off the handle :P.

So other than flagging out, my stall tactic over water is the only game in town? It works and it's better than self rescue when I'm still in control,might be a long swim if I get pulled deep into water while setting it up. Not really a problem so much as potential for a long swim home. I can live wih it but was hoping for better. Appreciate the tips iblocalsurfer, I'll remember that.


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 Post subject: Re: Need tips for self-landing
PostPosted: Wed Jan 22, 2014 2:45 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jul 16, 2010 6:27 am
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Location: Ford Lake, Michigan
dracop wrote:

So other than flagging out, my stall tactic over water is the only game in town? It works and it's better than self rescue


Your stall tactic is dangerous. When it fails the kite tumbles straight into the power zone. Self rescue is the preferred method when you can't land on the beach. You'll figure all this out soon enough.


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 Post subject: Re: Need tips for self-landing
PostPosted: Wed Jan 22, 2014 3:02 pm 
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Never use a beach goer unless you know them and they are a kiter.

Your stall tactic doesn't sound the best either, as it sounds like you are not flagging the kite out, i.e. it is pulling you out into the water.

Self landing in those conditions is never going to be pretty or easy. As others have said, use your flagging line when close to the beach. Ride up to knee deep water or so, making sure no people or objects are down wind of you. If you have to go down wind a ways to get clear of people/ objects, so be it. You can always walk back up to where you need to go. Put your kite at the edge of the window with the wingtip in the water and release to let the kite flag out. The kite will drift directly down wind of you. Walk to your kite hand over hand on the flag line. Wrap your lines and you are good to go.


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 Post subject: Re: Need tips for self-landing
PostPosted: Wed Jan 22, 2014 7:16 pm 
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Location: The Naki
A teather Is a good solo land option in nuking winds.

The bigger issue in your example is the selection of the correct kite. If you know the weather patterns and forecast for you local and select the appropriate kite you should not end up on a really over powered kite.

Wind does not magically increase for no reason. It either increases due to a sea brease kicking in, a predicted wind pattern change, or squall/front/rain cloud configuration. All of those can be assessed and predicted reasonably well.

Personally I check 2 forecast web sites, check live weather updates and the rain radar before going to the beach, Then at the beach its a visual inspection of conditions. before selecting the correct kite.

If there are other experienced kiters out there what size are they flying? If they are all on 8's and your launching a 12 you need to think twice about whether that is wise or not.


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 Post subject: Re: Need tips for self-landing
PostPosted: Wed Jan 22, 2014 9:09 pm 
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Dracop,
I think you made some solid decisions like staying away from the crowds (preferably being downwind of them) and not choosing some random person to catch your kite when landing. Eliminating any risk to beach users is probably your first priority.

I havent really heard or seen persons getting t-bagged like in the old days when kites didnt have the high depower. If over powered best to keep the kite very low. Easiest to body drag with kite almost resting on the water if being blown off the water.

Self rescue/self land for the most part in your situation would be the best method to choose to land safely land your kite. Some kites flag out better than others in high winds, but within reason just make sure no one is in your window when activating your QR1. If the beach is too crowded, just do the self land in the shallow waters that you mentioned to avoid any risk to beach users. (everyone wins!)

As mentioned by someone else, the "stall tactic" on a LEI is not recommended. This method in overpowered conditions could be very dangerous if the kite has a chance to power up.

Not a fan of hearing persons try to land their kite in very high winds, by tugging lines to flip the kite over on the leading edge. More risk IMO of something going wrong and kite powering back up out of control. A potential option for those who have this technique down solid, but definitely not your first option for landing.

A teather if beach conditions permit, like Plummet noted is very good when on your own.


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 Post subject: Re: Need tips for self-landing
PostPosted: Wed Jan 22, 2014 9:13 pm 
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I'd recommend trying the stall tactic, if you can do it perfect and it works great, if not you can always eject as soon as you see it falling backward. This actually puts the kite in the perfect spot downwind of you so it doesn't drag across the beach when you eject.

That's what I do when I try to pull the top center line, if the kite falls on its back just eject


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 Post subject: Re: Need tips for self-landing
PostPosted: Wed Jan 22, 2014 9:52 pm 
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If you plan on doing any non standard methods of self landing (ie stall method), best to try and master initially in light winds and not well over powered conditions. When things going wrong (normally happens very quickly), peoples reaction time to hit their QR1 may not be be as fast as needed in well overpowered conditions.

If you want to minimize your kite dragging on the beach downwind when activating your QR1, just move upwind the minute the kite is ready to go downwind. This way the kite stays in the relative same spot without dragging and you move. The other alternative to eliminate your kite dragging on the beach when activating your QR1, just land in the water.


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 Post subject: Re: Need tips for self-landing
PostPosted: Wed Jan 22, 2014 11:04 pm 
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Location: The Naki
I use the stall technique quite often.

I do it on the land, not in the water.

What I do is fly the kite to the edge in the gust several feet from the deck.
Then when it starts to stall in the lull I ditch the bar and walk upwind up the front lines briskly. I then move onto the top line and at a point when i think its safe yank the top line and bring the kite down.

That sorta all happens at the same time.

If it turns pear shaped, as i have already ditched the bar, the just kite flags out on its safety.

The key is to ditch the bar. If you are still hooked in when/if the kite roles down wind your potentially in trouble.


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 Post subject: Re: Need tips for self-landing
PostPosted: Thu Jan 23, 2014 2:43 am 
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These tips all sound good if you have lots of space and even more experience. Personally I think hitting the safety and flagging out is the way to go. It works , its safe , and not a big deal to wrap up and head home , safe and sound. And using your safety is a great way to bulild up muscle memory and work on self rescue. ALL GOOD!!!


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 Post subject: Re: Need tips for self-landing
PostPosted: Thu Jan 23, 2014 2:50 am 
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Location: Ford Lake, Michigan
plummet dont forget this guy was getting lofted 10 feet in the air when he decided to use this technique. Correct me if I'm wrong but I didn't think this was a good technique for nuking winds due to possibility of the kite tumbling into the power zone.

I don't like yanking the top line very much if you want to throw away the bar and disable the kite. I like holding on to the bottom line and walking upwind a bit. The kite falls into a U and you just walk down the line to it.

I really don't like the kite sitting there without any sand on it, some of my kites like to pop up in the air if it's gusty.


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