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 Post subject: Working with kite in waves on cross-shore conditions
PostPosted: Thu Jan 23, 2014 5:00 am 
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Guys, need your advice on kite position and movement, while riding waves strapless. Wind is cross-onshore beach break, I'm goofy. Kite: RPM 2013 7m + RPM 2014 9m (already buying Rally's).

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Riding right. I have to ride backside. Typical problems:

1. When riding down the wave on shore, kite is stalling. When kite is in 12 o'clock, it stalls super fast and is almost unrecoverable. When I put kite super low it stalls, but recovers in air pretty fast. What is correct position for kite in such conditions? Should I park it super low or should I pivot it?

2. When riding with good speed (and power) in front of breaking wave (like 3-4m in front), its hard to get back on it. Kite is pulling me away from wave downwind even when fully depowered.

Same thing often happens, when I'm taking big waves (like 2-3m), going down it and getting good speed. Then I simply can't get back on it, because kite pulls me off it downwind.

Riding left. Here I ride frontside (should be more comfortable), but can't get how to ride it.

3. Can't ride with kite super low, because it pulls me through wave offshore.

4. Can't ride with kite in 12, because line slacks and I have no power.

5. Kiteloops (I do them with backhand) are either superpowered (carve is too wide) or underpowered (kite rotates, but no pull).

Looks like I don't get how to use kite in these conditions properly, so your advice is much appreciated.


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 Post subject: Re: Working with kite in waves on cross-shore conditions
PostPosted: Thu Jan 23, 2014 7:46 am 
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hey dan,
This is the hardest type of wave ridding. when you go right, you basically cannot get away from getting pulled off the wave as you described. , but in going left, you can drift the kite though. heres what i usually will do

start on the swell pointing as if you are going right on the wave. your kite will be around the "g" on your picture. then right as you begin to "drop in" kinda fade toward dropping more straight in. but you really still will have an angle going toward the right because you want to keep good tension on the lines. keep the kite super low. as you are around half way into your "drop in", snap turn your kite toward the left. let it fly left just a tiny bit, then comitt to your bottom turn following the kite. here's where the magic happens. it now will depend on a bunch of different elements to determine how drawn out your bottom turn will be: how powered your kite is, how big the waves are (basically equates to your board speed), and how well you snap turned your kite and when you initiated your bottom turn. those three things are all working either against you or with you. but your goal is to have the kite go into a perfect drift at the "e" in "left wave". if the stars are in line, your kite will just drift around that e, and you can get any ware between 1 and 3 bottom and top turns before you have to redirect your kite.(there's actually two more factors- one is the swell direction. this is super slight and you really won't notice this, but slight variations in swell direction will mess with it. - the other is how well your kite drifts. but again, it is what it is)
so now, you've been ridding down the line and your kite is getting closer and closeer to the wave like around the "L" in left. now you can eitherr redirect your kite over the top, or down loop it. To answer that, if the wave is closing out and you just want to straigten out or your kite is too close to the lip of the wave, go over the top and just run away. but if you want to try and stay on the wave, down loop it. just be super careful not to swipe it into the lip if the waves are on the big side. So now when you down loop it, you have two options. one is as it comes around, you just straighten out and run toward the beach. the other is to 360 degree loop and spin it all the way back the that "e" position. if it all works out, you'll spin the kite all the way back into a perfect drift and your set again.
i've written alot so sorry if it seems kinda rambling. also a note,this is how I wave sail. I just want my kite in a perfect drift so I'm surfing with no power in the kite at all. hope this helps.


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 Post subject: Re: Working with kite in waves on cross-shore conditions
PostPosted: Thu Jan 23, 2014 8:00 am 
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Location: The Naki
Use a smaller kite. Sounds like your are trying to ride those waves too powered. most of the stuff you describe happens when too powered.


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 Post subject: Re: Working with kite in waves on cross-shore conditions
PostPosted: Thu Jan 23, 2014 12:16 pm 
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These are the conditions we get 80 percent of the time.

What kite are you on as this will effect advise given.

You are not a goofy footer are you? It you are then again advice will change.

If not, then going left (forget going right you will always get pulled off the wave), you may be able to stall it and get one slash in but that's about it...it's the left you want.

If you ride non goofy then to start with you either learn to unhook on your backside or better still learn to ride switch.

If you don't want to either of those, you will need a very good drifting kite and or ride the smallest kite possible and fly and follow. You will need to keep it moving.

So going left, hooked in backside...try coming down the face, then under looping instead of bringing the kite back past 12, as the kite builds speed towards the wind, quickly turn the kite back down the face but only ever so slightly...so the kite follows you and your board (again it's got to be a good drifting kite). If you bring that kite back to fast it will fly around the wind window and you will be forced to come off the face to stop it dropping in the drink.

Once you have that under loop sorted, then even better than the quick turn back, downloop it back the other way (back down the face) but use the power to edge against for a backside slash which will take the slack up in the lines.

The other method is to forget the under loop and actually downloop the whole time, one after the other using the power spike to backhand slash the wave every time.

You gotta move the kite in these conditions...so again what kite are you using?


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 Post subject: Re: Working with kite in waves on cross-shore conditions
PostPosted: Thu Jan 23, 2014 12:33 pm 
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Westozzy, dude, did you actually read original post? :lol:
I ride RPMs and I'm goofy :) :thumb:

What do you mean by "fly and follow"? Should I swing my kite back and forth as I tack my board?


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 Post subject: Re: Working with kite in waves on cross-shore conditions
PostPosted: Thu Jan 23, 2014 9:09 pm 
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I am goofy and ride cross on as per your picture. This is my more detailed thoughts.

Riding right.
1. When riding down the wave on shore, kite is stalling. When kite is in 12 o'clock, it stalls super fast and is almost unrecoverable.

Don;t do this. keep the kite lower. maybe 45

When I put kite super low it stalls, but recovers in air pretty fast.
Work it a bit. bar about half way. The wave should be push you along and create power in the kite when your underpowered and riding upwind right.

2. When riding with good speed (and power) in front of breaking wave (like 3-4m in front), its hard to get back on it. Kite is pulling me away from wave downwind even when fully depowered.Same thing often happens, when I'm taking big waves (like 2-3m), going down it and getting good speed. Then I simply can't get back on it, because kite pulls me off it downwind.

Both of these instances are because your kite is too powered for wave riding. change down a size or trim the kite until you don't get pulled off the face. A correctly powered kite for wave riding wont pull you off the face.

If its actually cross off then it just maybe too upwind to ride the wave right.


Riding left. Here I ride frontside (should be more comfortable), but can't get how to ride it.

3. Can't ride with kite super low, because it pulls me through wave offshore.
That sounds like an cross off condition. Not cross on. or your wanging it through the powerzone. Work the kite in the same direction as your turns.


4. Can't ride with kite in 12, because line slacks and I have no power. Once on the wave face you don't need power. Only enough to stop the kite falling from the sky. If you want power for your turns work the kite or loop it.

5. Kiteloops (I do them with backhand) are either superpowered Too much power in the kite again, change down or trim. What are you calling back hand? your right or left? I loop with the left hand down the line mostly. (carve is too wide) or underpowered (kite rotates, but no pull). This is what you want for wave riding. let the wave push you. Or to regain power cutback and get some line tension. Yourl be powered again.


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 Post subject: Re: Working with kite in waves on cross-shore conditions
PostPosted: Fri Jan 24, 2014 9:24 am 
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Oops sorry dude...

Righto rpm is now slouch in the waves but prefer a fly and follow technique, it drifts but does tend to stall like you have experienced if left there to drift down the line. Not as bad as some but it is there nevertheless. I've seen some guys rip on this kite in the surf but they are always actively flying it, whipping it around as after all it's a bloody fast and agile turner. Use that.

Righto goofy hey, well no excuse going on those lefts then. Try this, as you come down the wave face, pull on your right hand and underloop it back towards the wave and drive your SB as vertical as you can back up the wave. As you are just about to put in that backs foot carve (you lucky bastard) either pull on the left hand and downloop it back or just pull again with your right.

Or as you come down the face, really get on your toes with speed and crank that kite back, then pull with your back hand as the kite passes over the back of the wave and just before you hit it yourself....longer arcs...move the kite then your board. Keep it moving. Of course you will need to learn to control the speed and convert it into some heel side slashes off the wave face.

Basically get more aggressive when you get on your toes at the bottom of the wave with the kite and edge of the board.

I watch a goofy footer every winter ride in similar conditions, just smashing the shit out of the waves, but he is on reo after all a real wave kite.


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 Post subject: Re: Working with kite in waves on cross-shore conditions
PostPosted: Fri Jan 24, 2014 4:35 pm 
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I am surprised no one has asked about your board. I ride in much different conditions than you, but I experience several of your problems when on the wrong board. A board with too much buoyancy, especially towards the tail, or not enough rocker, will create too much speed leading to several of your issues.

The first time I rode a proper surfboard for my conditions I was shocked at how much I flew the kite with my board. It also made all movements of the kite easier, more predictable, and more controllable.


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 Post subject: Re: Working with kite in waves on cross-shore conditions
PostPosted: Fri Jan 24, 2014 5:16 pm 
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Outside, I'm 71 kgs now and board lenght is 6'0". Can't tell nothing about volume, need time to check. I think my problem is my kite piloting, not the board. I have no idea what to do with kite in general, so I have to sort it out in first place.


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 Post subject: Re: Working with kite in waves on cross-shore conditions
PostPosted: Sat Jan 25, 2014 1:14 am 
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Outside wrote:
I am surprised no one has asked about your board. I ride in much different conditions than you, but I experience several of your problems when on the wrong board. A board with too much buoyancy, especially towards the tail, or not enough rocker, will create too much speed leading to several of your issues.

The first time I rode a proper surfboard for my conditions I was shocked at how much I flew the kite with my board. It also made all movements of the kite easier, more predictable, and more controllable.



Actually this guy has point. The goofy guy I watch who shreds in a fly and follow (with drift when needed) rides a 17inch, type 5'8, 2 inch thick almost tow boardish dimensions...hence can really get that speed cranked.


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