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 Post subject: Re: Average Joe Kite Review- Light wind kites
PostPosted: Fri Feb 21, 2014 10:28 am 
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Posts: 424
Why the hell does everyone get so Tense about light wind kiting. There are so many claims about performance that don't make any sense.
1. Kite X boosts huge in Light wind
2. Kite Y lets you ride waves in light wind
3. Kite A gets you up wind in 6 knts
Etc

If all you want to do is ride back and forth in the sun then you have a ton of choices as already mentioned but if you want more than that your choices are slim.
In the UK I call light wind any thing in the 9 to 15mph range, and if it isn't around 12 at the beach it is likely to lull out to nothing so is pointless trying to get out.


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 Post subject: Re: Average Joe Kite Review- Light wind kites
PostPosted: Fri Feb 21, 2014 2:02 pm 
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Posts: 392
Location: Quebec, Canada
Westozzy wrote:
Anyone ridden the 13.5m core X3 s a light wind kite (for a lighter fellow)...got a 12m down to demo because stuff me if I can find anything worth while review wise on this kite.

Yes I had and I like it but I don't think it is powerful enough even for a light rider to be call a LW kite. I would suggest highly the XR3 15m instead. It is my wife's LW kite (and mine too btw) and she is 128lbs and like it a lot. The 15m is still quite fast, closer to the 13,5m turning speed while the 17m is much closer to the 19m in term of turning speed. So the 15m is the best alternative in the XR3 lineup for a good LW kite for lighter riders.


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 Post subject: Re: Average Joe Kite Review- Light wind kites
PostPosted: Fri Feb 21, 2014 2:14 pm 
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Oldnbroken wrote:
Lmrutledge wrote:
Old N Broken,

How would you rate the Wainman Big Mama for Low End GRUNT?

Thanks
I like the kite very much, it has plenty of power and the pull out of the hole is much fun, has more grunt power than my Zephyr did and more than the Renegade 13M, more than my 14M SS Turbo 2 and less than the initial grunt of the Infinity, a bit more than the Fuel 17M I had back some years ago.
My buddy who sold me the kite is 265 pounds and this kite worked very well for him,
He used the Mama and a 9M Smoke and that was his quiver...He has given up kiting and moved on to PPG flying.
The Mama goes upwind great, and drifts downwind just as well, relaunch is fantastic.
Turning is quick and powerful like all the Wainman kites, and the turn can be tight and somewhat pivotal if you like, but also can be tuned to be more open and C kite like.
The Wainman kites have more adjustment in tuning than any other kite I've ever owned.
The large leading edge and 15M size hold it back from being a kite to compete with the latest lightwind monsters, but it was not designed to be that.
It is great in 10-20 mph, it will go higher but not recommended, I'm at 185 pounds.
I call a fast turning lower aspect kite, a grunty kite....but I have no interest in arguing the definition of low end grunt with anybody in the mood to fight about it.
The Wainman kites in general are a blast to fly, they are just very engaging kites.
Their 9M Smoke is the most fun kite ever to just bomb around on, just a blast at the bar..zoom, zoom. The medium sized Wainman kites don't boost like some boost specific kites do but they are meant for surfing waves, flatwater unhooked freestyle, and to be a great all arounder for general kiting.
These opinions apply to me...where I kite...how I ride.


Edited at 2:03AM !! Austin,Texas time....please sleep in....after all you are a business owner :bye:


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 Post subject: Re: Average Joe Kite Review- Light wind kites
PostPosted: Fri Feb 21, 2014 2:20 pm 
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Joined: Tue Mar 31, 2009 1:32 pm
Posts: 384
Location: Northern Ontario
WOW!! I have read some very personal attacks and Westozzy seems to have stated something that really needs to come into play....discretion in our wording. Coming into any thread with the malicious intent to attack people is pretty low. I am all for debating the merits of what is like and not liked about any kite (with the hopes that it is level headed) with the end result being it helps the future development of that model. It's a kite fella's.... and at the end of the day nothing more than a pastime. Enjoy the kites that make you happy...keep the squabbles respectable.

James

UKsurf....the comment made me laugh about being the #1 Epic Fanboy. Have fun brother!


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 Post subject: Re: Average Joe Kite Review- Light wind kites
PostPosted: Fri Feb 21, 2014 2:23 pm 
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Posts: 384
Location: Northern Ontario
Hey Seb,

Have you tried the 19m XR3? I am curious to what difference it would make on the lowend compared to the 17XR3? SupaEz you can chime in here as well if you know my friend :thumb:

James


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 Post subject: Re: Average Joe Kite Review- Light wind kites
PostPosted: Fri Feb 21, 2014 2:28 pm 
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Joined: Wed Nov 03, 2004 11:15 pm
Posts: 514
Location: Bergen County & LBI NJ
This is what this tread is all about
Average Joes light wind kite review and as OceanAdventures has so gracefully stated I will recap with their review. Guys who have flow these kites back to back and provided their honest feed back.

I believe the actual review has been lost behind all the needless defense. So here is it again in summary.

In lighter winds, 9knots and below the Infinity wants to pull you down wind and it is hard to hold any line. 10-12 knots it's a decent kite with plenty of power and starts to ride upwind better. 14 knots and up the kite gets overpowering and is not as comfortable to fly.

Dimitri's videos just reinforce all of these points.

The point why we don't recommend this kite in light wind is because there are kites that you can ride upwind in less wind, and ride past 13-14 knots and still be comfortable and having fun.

Most people are not going to buy a large light wind kite and then have a 14m kite also. Bigger guys will have fun on their light wind kite until the wind is too much and then will ride a 13-12m kite.

You could go out and get a C-kite and probably get just as good performance in the small wind range of the Infinity, without the good relaunch of course. And guys who's style would compliment the infinity would probably be happier with a c-style kite.

They were talking about how they were getting big air in 10 knots back in 1999, so in our opinion the Infinity, which when it came out in the beginning had speed on the bigger light wind kites, now really as nothing to offer different that other kites now do better in a bigger range of winds.

X


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 Post subject: Re: Average Joe Kite Review- Light wind kites
PostPosted: Fri Feb 21, 2014 3:18 pm 
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Joined: Tue Mar 31, 2009 1:32 pm
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Location: Northern Ontario
Hey Xtream,

The only issue that I have with your comment is about a C kite having the same range as the infinity. I have used the big C kites and they just don't have the low end that a half decent 13m bow kite has. I have no experience with the infinity but plenty with C kites.

James


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 Post subject: Re: Average Joe Kite Review- Light wind kites
PostPosted: Fri Feb 21, 2014 3:35 pm 
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Joined: Wed Nov 03, 2004 11:15 pm
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Location: Bergen County & LBI NJ
OceanAdventures wrote:
Hey everyone. Just finished the Video and written review. Enjoy... We hope anyway

[youtube]http://youtu.be/rcLGAb6z8bI[/youtube]
Battle of the Light Wind Kites

Well, we finally finished up testing the kites and have gathered some observations together for you. Not only did we test them in light wind (11 mph w/2 mph downwind current), but higher wind (15-20 mph) as well. After all, we all know that sometimes a light wind session turns into something a little more and I was curious to see how they’d perform. Now, one of the great takeaways from this is that there really weren’t any dogs in this test. All of them performed well and didn’t really leave us disappointed. The video testimonials do a little better at describing the individual thoughts of each tester, whereas most of the observations below are my own. As the heaviest rider, I was certainly impressed by how well they worked in so little wind. For the light wind riding, I used a Spleene Door 159, for the stronger wind I used a Cabrinha Prodigy 144. For our light wind testing, we rotated through kites at the same time, coming in, trading off, and going right back out.
So, in alphabetical order, here we go:

Cabrinha Contra 17m
January 15, 2014; 15-20 mph

-Nice and stable, constant pull, easy to jump
-Easy to drive out of the window when overpowered
-Felt confident the entire time, even though everyone else had shifted down to 12’s
-Jumps were nice and floaty without overpowering before takeoff

January 20, 2014; 11 mph w/2 mph downwind current

-Good pull, feels a little slow to turn, very similar to the Turbine
-Very stable, no back-stalling
-Light bar pressure, but not so much that you feel like you need to look at the kite much
-The Cabrinha bar is the most comfortable of them all

Core XR3 19m
January 15, 2014; 15-20 mph

-Nicely powered, sometimes a little overpowered in gusts, a little difficult to edge out of the window
-Light bar pressure, very responsive
-Fun to jump

January 20, 2014; 11 mph w/2 mph downwind current

-Again, nice pull w/ plenty of power and turns well. I was actually pulling kite loop/back rolls in this light wind!
-Seems like a little more low end grunt than the previous version (XR2)
-How does this big kite turn so fast with this little bar?!
-The Core’s quick release is requires a twist, versus the “industry standard” of push away. As a safety issue, I’d prefer to see them all the same.

Ocean Rodeo Flite 17m
January 15, 2014; 15-20 mph

-Flew well, easy to surge to the edge of the window when overpowered
-Above the bar depower works well, very easy to operate
-Nice re-launch, on par with the Turbine (or maybe better)
-Very fun to jump in strong wind

January 20, 2014; 11 mph w/2 mph downwind current

-Fast and pulls well
-Fun to fly
-Makes you forget that you’re flying a big kite
-Somehow, the Ocean Rodeo Flite bag doesn’t have a place to store the pump on the outside of the bag. The bag is roomy enough to stuff it in there, but I don’t want to cram that in there with the kite.
-The Flite has a reinforced grab handle sewn part way down the wing tip for self-rescue. Most others seem to be an afterthought.

Slingshot Turbine 17m
January 15, 2014; 15-20 mph

-Pulls hard, but still easy to edge it and push it out of the window when overpowered
-Below the bar depower is still the same and not very user friendly when you NEED it
-If you can hold your edge long enough to get the kite high in the window, you will be rewarded with some pretty amazing hangtime in strong winds, but it isn’t easy

January 20, 2014; 11 mph w/2 mph downwind current

-As always, this kite just pulls from the get go. No need to work it for a while…turn it and it’s a static pull
-One of the best light wind re-launches, so easy a caveman can do it. ;)
-Medium bar pressure; you really don’t ever have to look at the kite to know where it is
-Super stable
-Continued remarks from everyone are that Slingshot needs to make the bar’s grip out of something less like a cheese grater!

So, there it is. A mash-up of some of the best light wind kites that we’ve found, reviewed by average guys like you, not superstars that are pulling mega loops on trainer kites. Now, get out there and ride!


Like I mentioned above this is Ocean Adventure's recap I have not flow the Infinity or any of these kites in the review. These guys have actually flown the kites. I respect their review.

X

http://youtu.be/rcLGAb6z8bI

OceanAdventures Recap
This is what this tread is all about
Average Joes light wind kite review and as OceanAdventures has so gracefully stated I will recap with their review. Guys who have flow these kites back to back and provided their honest feed back.

I believe the actual review has been lost behind all the needless defense. So here is it again in summary.

In lighter winds, 9knots and below the Infinity wants to pull you down wind and it is hard to hold any line. 10-12 knots it's a decent kite with plenty of power and starts to ride upwind better. 14 knots and up the kite gets overpowering and is not as comfortable to fly.

Dimitri's videos just reinforce all of these points.

The point why we don't recommend this kite in light wind is because there are kites that you can ride upwind in less wind, and ride past 13-14 knots and still be comfortable and having fun.

Most people are not going to buy a large light wind kite and then have a 14m kite also. Bigger guys will have fun on their light wind kite until the wind is too much and then will ride a 13-12m kite.

You could go out and get a C-kite and probably get just as good performance in the small wind range of the Infinity, without the good relaunch of course. And guys who's style would compliment the infinity would probably be happier with a c-style kite.

They were talking about how they were getting big air in 10 knots back in 1999, so in our opinion the Infinity, which when it came out in the beginning had speed on the bigger light wind kites, now really as nothing to offer different that other kites now do better in a bigger range of winds.


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 Post subject: Re: Average Joe Kite Review- Light wind kites
PostPosted: Fri Feb 21, 2014 5:03 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jul 20, 2010 5:57 pm
Posts: 392
Location: Quebec, Canada
soul19 wrote:
Hey Seb,

Have you tried the 19m XR3? I am curious to what difference it would make on the lowend compared to the 17XR3? SupaEz you can chime in here as well if you know my friend :thumb:

James

Yes i also tried that one, I tried most of the size in fact and I own a quiver of XR3 15/11/8m. The 19m is of course a little bit more powerful then the 17m, around 1 knot difference in the low and high end when compare to the 17m. Personally I always recommand the 15m or the 19m. Since the 17m is "almost the same turning speed" as the 19m if I can say, so when you are thinking of maybe getting a 17m go ahead and pick the 19m. Personally I do quite well in LW with my XR3 15m combine with a good LW surf board. The higher turning speed of the 15m help me get on plane and then I pickup speed and that's it. I was riding before on a Speed3 21m but with a TT and I am now able to almost achieve the exact same LW performance.


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 Post subject: Re: Average Joe Kite Review- Light wind kites
PostPosted: Fri Feb 21, 2014 6:48 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jun 12, 2011 12:47 pm
Posts: 2548
soul19 wrote:
Hey Seb,

Have you tried the 19m XR3? I am curious to what difference it would make on the lowend compared to the 17XR3? SupaEz you can chime in here as well if you know my friend :thumb:

James


Funny you ask about the 17 because yesterday with my wife we rigged 2 kites...
...a 12 Rebel for her to see if she would be powered up and as a safeguard her XR3 17

She was powered up just fine in the waves on her Whip 2013 5'4"

So i rode the 17 that was rigged up and really like it...the wind was not light at around 11-13kn

From riding the 19 so much i can tell you that the 17 turns quite faster in my opinion

The 19 turns fast to begin with...so i felt like the 17 was pretty close in fact the the 12 Rebel

My transition kiteloop tricks on my Whip 5'5" 2011 were really fun

I have ridden the 17 in light winds a few times and at 8-9kn you can track upwind

On the 19 it is 7-8kn

Now the 19 top end is 18kn.....and the 17 is 20kn.........quite easy with the XR3 for me

I have handled 21kn gusts with the 19 and have handled 24 kn gusts on the 17

We never ride with 3m. extensions..." lines" are 24m

When adding the bar leaders and the wingtip leaders length ....you get a total of 26.3 meters

:cheers: :surf: :sun:


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