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 Post subject: Re: Average Joe Kite Review- Light wind kites
PostPosted: Thu Aug 07, 2014 4:20 am 
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Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2007 5:01 pm
Posts: 350
@OR-Sales: what I hate in kiteboarding is the lack of integrity of the manufacturers. Why is the guy walking towards the kite in your video? Core used to say... Oh that's because he is on land... This is a damn inflatable, show me what it does on the water... Are you telling me that OR dors not test its product in the water before going to market? No one, during the hours and hours of testing could pull the trigger with the gopro on?

Gimme a break,your kite does not flip on its back...


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 Post subject: Re: Average Joe Kite Review- Light wind kites
PostPosted: Fri Aug 08, 2014 4:26 am 
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Location: Quebec
flipper231 wrote:
@OR-Sales: what I hate in kiteboarding is the lack of integrity of the manufacturers. Why is the guy walking towards the kite in your video? Core used to say... Oh that's because he is on land... This is a damn inflatable, show me what it does on the water... Are you telling me that OR dors not test its product in the water before going to market? No one, during the hours and hours of testing could pull the trigger with the gopro on?

Gimme a break,your kite does not flip on its back...

I had the same issue with a couple of different kite when releasing in light weather to test the system, switchblade 2011 and 2013, older varial 2009 or 2010, xr3, best ts 2012, kahoona 2010, bandit b6. I had to swim alittle. When releasing in crazy weather though; once on the xr3, once on the sblade and once on the ts, they all worked fine. Those mini 5th line work better in strong wind. Best, airuh, ocean rodeo all had oh shitrelease so in lighter stuff like kite dropping in lightwind it isnt an issue. Core have the new system which flags on one line, say better than the older one.


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 Post subject: Re: Average Joe Kite Review- Light wind kites
PostPosted: Fri Aug 08, 2014 10:49 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jun 19, 2014 6:38 pm
Posts: 167
Since this post came up again......

After deciding the O.R. control bar was not right for me, I decided to return it. John Z took the bar back with no hassles. He was even willing to honor ocean rodeo's 30 day satisfaction guarantee and take the kite back as well. I am very happy I kept the flite. I took out a small personal loan and bought a 2014 north quad bar. This bar has the immediate depower i was looking for.
A few weeks ago i was out in 7-11 mph winds. The only other kite out was a core lw 19m. Even though the other kiter has much more experience then i, I was faster and could angle upwind more efficiently. I was jumping 10-14 ft when the wind gusted above 9mph. I was riding a litewave wing 146 and weigh 153 lbs. The other kiter was on a big flat board and had 10 more pounds on me
When the wind is 10-12 mph i can ride my custom 140 and start having a lot of fun. On the high end, Ive been out in 12-16mph and did not feel over powered. Although, I was fully depowered. For me, i think 20mph would be the upper most limit using the last knot on the pigtails.

I am very very happy with my Flite and quad bar combo. Thank you John Z.


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 Post subject: Re: Average Joe Kite Review- Light wind kites
PostPosted: Sun Aug 10, 2014 9:25 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jul 24, 2014 11:14 pm
Posts: 55
Kind of late to this thread, but FWIW, NO kite will pivot up onto its wingtip and relaunch without enough wind. There simply isn't enough leverage to lift the whole kite up and over. Swimming toward the kite allows it to flag over and back then you can pull it up easily. That used to be the only way to get a kite to relaunch back when I started. Don't bitch about how you actually have to work a bit to relaunch a kite.

Another easy way to relaunch if the kite won't stand up is simply grab both back lines and fly it up in reverse. Release one line when it stops going up and it'll pivot and you're flying again. Easy.


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 Post subject: Re: Average Joe Kite Review- Light wind kites
PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2014 9:54 pm 
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Posts: 470
Sorry folks, was just on a week long vacation to PEI (Canada). Highly recommend this lovely little island as an AMAZING kite location. Wind, waves, warm water, quaint villages and $6 lobster, everywhere.... but, I digress.

flipper231 wrote:
@OR-Sales: what I hate in kiteboarding is the lack of integrity of the manufacturers. Why is the guy walking towards the kite in your video?

Gimme a break,your kite does not flip on its back...


Flipper... I don't suspect I am going to convince you of much but for the benefit of others, here's my response.

You're right, we should have filmed this in the water but it was a quick and dirty video done on a budget.

However, you're also correct that Ross takes a step towards the kite to simulate what it would be like if ejected in the water and floating. The OP (below) had the same experience with his eject when he was in shallow water and dug in his heels, in this case the kite won't be able to roll over completely but as soon as some drift is introduced the kite will roll over.

I can't say when but I will attempt to get footage of a proper eject in the water which I can then share. However, for you to imply that our kites are not safe is simply untrue. As I said in my 1st post on the subject, we discuss and review eject options with almost every RnD discussion around bars and remain convinced that the roll over bridle system is the best solution for consistent depower, especially with kiters who loop, downloop or roll with their kite often, which is the vast majority.

Do-it wrote:
Since this post came up again......

After deciding the O.R. control bar was not right for me, I decided to return it. John Z took the bar back with no hassles. He was even willing to honor ocean rodeo's 30 day satisfaction guarantee and take the kite back as well. I am very happy I kept the flite. I took out a small personal loan and bought a 2014 north quad bar. This bar has the immediate depower i was looking for.

I am very very happy with my Flite and quad bar combo. Thank you John Z.


Happy to have helped and even more happy to hear that you are so excited about the Flite and that you've found a bar system you are comfortable with, confidence on the water is key!

Bushflyr wrote:
Kind of late to this thread, but FWIW, NO kite will pivot up onto its wingtip and relaunch without enough wind. There simply isn't enough leverage to lift the whole kite up and over. Swimming toward the kite allows it to flag over and back then you can pull it up easily. That used to be the only way to get a kite to relaunch back when I started. Don't bitch about how you actually have to work a bit to relaunch a kite.


Glad someone said it! I need to stay PC on here! ha.

John Z - OR


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 Post subject: Re: Average Joe Kite Review- Light wind kites
PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2014 12:03 am 
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Joined: Mon Sep 27, 2010 2:47 am
Posts: 534
Do-it wrote:
Since this post came up again......

After deciding the O.R. control bar was not right for me, I decided to return it. John Z took the bar back with no hassles. He was even willing to honor ocean rodeo's 30 day satisfaction guarantee and take the kite back as well. I am very happy I kept the flite. I took out a small personal loan and bought a 2014 north quad bar. This bar has the immediate depower i was looking for.
snip


LOL regarding the small personal loan for the North bar. Good to hear about your experience with John Z. and OR, that's outstanding service.


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 Post subject: DANGER and SINGLE FRONTLINE SAFETY?
PostPosted: Sat Nov 01, 2014 12:09 am 
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Joined: Sat Jun 08, 2013 8:49 pm
Posts: 10
@ All concerning Flippers theme

I think he is completely right and not sissy. These kites realy can BE dangerous. AND nobody tells you. I had about the same reaction, when i first realised it with my F-one Bandit. And as said above by someone else: There are several kites that do drag you downwind very fast in "low wind" - conditions.

And yes, I think he is also right in blaming the companie(s) not showing the use of quickrelease on video in conditions where it often (in my case always) happens: in deep water. There is a reason: failiure, hazzel and danger would become evident. I've seen not even one.

What I decided to do: I use a rollleash very often just not to lose my board. Because relaunching a kite in low wind condition is the next problem coming up when having been dragged downwind by the kite that did not fall on its back. BUT this also brings some risks with it. Board might slip throug the kitelines when falling off the board etc. Inform yourself! Rollleash should at least have a small quick release itself to get rid of it when necessary (imagine Leashline wrapping around neck or legs (wave conditions) or backline of kite wrapping around it when falling through kitelines or around one side of the bar, pulling kitebar causing deathspirals or....... case named above board through kitelines: kiteloops)!!!

Secondly: I check the possibility of using a single flagging line on these kites.

Therfore:

HAS ANYONE YET TRIED TO RELEASE THE FLITE 17 WITH SINGLEFRONTLINE SAFETY?
HOW OFTEN?
WHICH RESULT?
OTHER DANGERS ARISING?
HOW MUCH BARTHROW DOES THE KITE THEN REQUIRE TO SETTLE SAFELY?

I would appreciate very much you sharing experience in this crucial point!

Kind regards

Akita

Ps: And I "always use caution when kiteboarding" ;-)


Last edited by Akita on Sat Nov 01, 2014 12:37 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: DANGER and SINGLE FRONTLINE SAFETY?
PostPosted: Sat Nov 01, 2014 12:27 am 
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Joined: Tue Nov 15, 2005 6:29 pm
Posts: 470
Akita wrote:
@ All concerning Flippers theme

I think he is completely right and not sissy. These kites realy ARE dangerous. AND nobody tells you. I had about the same reaction, when i first realised it with my F-one Bandit. And as said above by someone else: There are several kites that do drag you downwind very fast in "low wind" - conditions.

And yes, I think he is also right in blaming the companie(s) not showing the use of quickrelease on video in conditions where it often (in my case always) happens: in deep water. There is a reason: failiure, hazzel and danger would become evident. I've seen not even one.

What I decided to do: I use a rollleash very often just not to lose my board. Because relaunching a kite in low wind condition is the next problem coming up when having been dragged downwind by the kite that did not fall on its back. BUT this also brings some risks with it. Board might slip throug the kitelines when falling off the board etc. Inform yourself! Rollleash should at least have a small quick release itself to get rid of it when necessary (imagine Leashline wrapping around neck or legs (wave conditions) or backline of kite wrapping around it when falling through kitelines or around one side of the bar, pulling kitebar causing deathspirals or....... case named above board through kitelines: kiteloops)!!!

Secondly: I check the possibility of using a single flagging line on these kites.

Therfore:

HAS ANYONE YET TRIED TO RELEASE THE FLITE 17 WITH SINGLEFRONTLINE SAFETY?
HOW OFTEN?
WHICH RESULT?
OTHER DANGERS ARISING?
HOW MUCH BARTHROW DOES THE KITE THEN REQUIRE TO SETTLE SAFELY?

I would appreciate very much you sharing experience in this crucial point!

Kind regards

Akita

Ps: And I "always use caution when kiteboarding" ;-)


Akita,

Couple of things to address here for you...

1) The roll over style depower works best in deeper waters. Do-It's original concern related to him standing in shallow water. If you dig your heels in, the kite will struggle to roll over. If you walk towards - or drift towards in deeper water - the kite, it will roll over. However, to your next question:

2) If you don't like the sound of that, a single line re-ride works perfectly well with all of our kites. As with 100% of all release systems of any style there can be complications - which is why all modern kite control systems give you the ability to eject the leash as well but single line - front or back - depower systems tend to be very reliable and are never more or less reliable for one kite style or brand to another... you are flagging a kite out on one line, the result is a kite that is largely depowered. Can sh!t go wrong? Yes.. it always can. What should you be aware of?

- flagging on one line can be problematic if you have been looping the kite a lot in one direction and the kites leash line is wrapped around the depower line
- flagging on one line can also be problematic if you release the kite on one side of the window but the flagging line is on the opposite side, this forces the kite to have to fly violently through the power zone and can be a bit spooky
- flagging the kite to one line forces you to have to swim home, as it is almost impossible to re-set on the water. This is problematic in that swimming can be a deterrent to wanting to use your safety system and in that swimming long distances can be dangerous in its own right.

3) "How much bar throw does the kite require to settle?" Not sure what you mean here.. in the context of your question there is no "bar throw" needed as you are leashing off one line... if you mean in the context of our Roll Over Bridle system the bar throw required for a complete depower changes by kite size from approx 10' for the small kites to about 15-18' for the big kites

4) Your comments about using a reel leash and tangles with your board and control set.... every rider needs to strike their own balance of what makes them comfortable on the water and what might compromise their safety but I have to say, if you're kiting and worried about losing your board... buy a Go Joe. Leashes for your board, reel or not, are dangerous.

Best of luck!

John Z - OR


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 Post subject: Re: Average Joe Kite Review- Light wind kites
PostPosted: Sat Nov 01, 2014 12:45 am 
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Joined: Thu Jun 19, 2014 6:38 pm
Posts: 167
Yeah, so my north quad bar does the same thing as the ocean rodeo bar. It's just the nature of dual line flag out i guess. I've learned through experience it's not really a big deal. I was used to a 5th line and reacted like a pussy when the kite didn't depower instantly. All you have to do is swim at the kite a little. I haven't had any issues with it rolling on it's back in deep water, and it's nice to be able to "reride" instead of swimming. In retrospect I should have kept the OR bar. The 2014 north quad bar has to much plasticky shit on it. Every time I adjust the pig tails I feel like a fucking 8 year old kid with down syndrome that's trying turn the transformer man back into a truck.... And i usually rip a fingernail off in the process. Why did I pay extra for this shit? There is something to be said about simplicity.

I will try my naish single line flag out and report back next time I get the chance.


If you are concerned about safety.... Priority number one..... Learn how to body drag and ditch the leash. There is an older gentleman at my beach that insists on his leash. I've seen so so many close calls. Even my wife, who knows next to nothing about kiting asked me why he was wearing the dangerous "rope" on the board. I know one day I'll have to chop my kite and go save his dumb ass.


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 Post subject: Re: Average Joe Kite Review- Light wind kites
PostPosted: Sat Nov 01, 2014 4:29 am 
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Joined: Sat Jun 30, 2012 11:25 am
Posts: 2465
In retrospect I should have kept the OR bar. The 2014 north quad bar has to much plasticky shit on it. Every time I adjust the pig tails I feel like a fucking 8 year old kid with down syndrome that's trying turn the transformer man back into a truck.... And i usually rip a fingernail off in the process. Why did I pay extra for this shit? There is something to be said about simplicity.




Bahahaha, so well said, classic.


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