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GoPro fogging - this is ridiculous!

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nicor
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Re: GoPro fogging - this is ridiculous!

Postby nicor » Thu Feb 06, 2014 7:33 pm

Geez, I was just going to blindly buy a GoPro. I didn't know there were so many other brands.

I'm only going to use the action camera for kiting and maybe some snowboarding.

Seeing there is a fogging problem with gopro, what would be best alternative for kiting?

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Re: GoPro fogging - this is ridiculous!

Postby RickI » Thu Feb 06, 2014 8:13 pm

You want a camera that shoots good, clear images. Bells and whistles are nice too but I would say that is the most important feature for me anyway. I have yet to find another brand that comes close in image quality (sharpness, color fidelity). There were quite a few at Surf Expo, looking into them, they seemed to come up short. You would think someone would come up with one but not yet to my knowledge. There is no problem with fogging in GoPros if you place paper towel sections inside. If you don't bother, a hot camera in a very small housing will fog under some conditions.
nicor wrote:Geez, I was just going to blindly buy a GoPro. I didn't know there were so many other brands.

I'm only going to use the action camera for kiting and maybe some snowboarding.

Seeing there is a fogging problem with gopro, what would be best alternative for kiting?

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Re: GoPro fogging - this is ridiculous!

Postby kitenake » Thu Feb 06, 2014 9:48 pm

put a tampon in it :jump: :jump: :jump:

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Re: GoPro fogging - this is ridiculous!

Postby gbgreen59 » Thu Feb 06, 2014 11:33 pm

There were a couple of us who don't seem to have a problem with fogging. I wonder if the polarizing lense has anything to do with not fogging. The polarizing lense is really just a piece of thin plastic that looks like a soft contact lense.

Does anyone who has problems with fogging also use a polarizing lense?

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Re: GoPro fogging - this is ridiculous!

Postby flyrob » Thu Feb 06, 2014 11:37 pm

RickI wrote: a hot camera in a very small housing will fog under some conditions.

It is not the temperature of the camera that causes the fogging.

It is the dew point of the air you trapped in the housing when you closed it and exposing the housing to temps below the dew point.

Here is the math.

Beautiful sunny day on Miami Beach today = 80F @ 70% relative humidity = 70F Dew Point

Water Temp 78F = NO Fogging

If the water went to 70 F, then the air within the housing would be chilled to its DEW POINT and the water would condense (or form DEW) on the housing.

So, all one has to do is reduce the dew point of the air within the housing to a pint where it is below the water temperature and condensation/fogging cannot occur.

Dessicants can reduce this but take time to adsorb the moisture from the air trapped within the housing. Think an hour or hours, not minutes.

The interior of a refrigerator, freezer has low relative humidity. No need to cold soak your camera either. If you "scoop" some air from the freezer and close the housing to trap the air, you will have very dry air with a very low dew point trapped in the housing and no fog problems down to water temps near freezing.

Same if you "fill" the Go Pro housing in front of an air conditioner vent.

Physics!

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Re: GoPro fogging - this is ridiculous!

Postby flyrob » Thu Feb 06, 2014 11:41 pm

gbgreen59 wrote:There were a couple of us who don't seem to have a problem with fogging. I wonder if the polarizing lense has anything to do with not fogging. The polarizing lense is really just a piece of thin plastic that looks like a soft contact lense.

Does anyone who has problems with fogging also use a polarizing lense?

The only way that a polarizing lens could theoretically have anything to do with fogging is if the darker material became slightly warmer due to infrared heating being exposed to the sun. But I suspect that minuscule difference is not significant enough.

Some people experience fogging and some don't. It is ALL related to the simple physics of the dew point of the air trapped in the housing when you close it up, and the temperature of the water the housing gets exposed to.

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Re: GoPro fogging - this is ridiculous!

Postby RickI » Fri Feb 07, 2014 2:47 am

Yes, camera heat generation and increased internal housing temperature will lead to fogging in some cases for the reason you cite, physics. This is explored in depth at the following link and in particular the fourth post by suryaprihadi:

http://goprouser.freeforums.org/possibl ... 14339.html

For folks interested in fogging in GoPro (or many other housed cameras) it is worth looking over. I routinely have fogging problems with all my land cameras going from AC space to humid outdoor conditions in SE Florida. Have the same thing only worse in the mountains in snow. I can recall having underwater housings fog over 40 years ago and many times since. This is far from a problem unique to GoPro in short. There are various "fixes" out there, find a good one and use it. Paper towel sections and sealing in an air conditioned space do it for me.
Attachments
paper towel gopro.jpg
The magic of a paper towel section and sealing your housing in AC.

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Re: GoPro fogging - this is ridiculous!

Postby flyrob » Fri Feb 07, 2014 5:07 am

RickI wrote:Yes, camera heat generation and increased internal housing temperature will lead to fogging in some cases for the reason you cite, physics. This is explored in depth at the following link and in particular the fourth post by suryaprihadi:

http://goprouser.freeforums.org/possibl ... 14339.html

For folks interested in fogging in GoPro (or many other housed cameras) it is worth looking over. I routinely have fogging problems with all my land cameras going from AC space to humid outdoor conditions in SE Florida. Have the same thing only worse in the mountains in snow. I can recall having underwater housings fog over 40 years ago and many times since. This is far from a problem unique to GoPro in short. There are various "fixes" out there, find a good one and use it. Paper towel sections and sealing in an air conditioned space do it for me.

His math using 30C at 80% RH = DP 27 C does not equate to 40C @ 60% RH. He pulled those numbers out of the air.

Once the housing is closed, whatever mass of water (in its vapour phase) is contained within the housing is fixed. Once the ambient interior air contacts the glass lens (best thermoconductor) that is at the dew point, it will condense. Regardless of the internal housing case temp being raised by the battery discharging.

The paper towel is cute, but unless your paper towel has been dried, it contains water at the same ratio as the air you stored the roll of paper towels in.

Here is THE ULTIMATE solution:

1. Squirt a bit of canned inert gas (like the wine preserver) into the housing with the door facing up and the lens down. You will have SUPER DRY air/gas in the housing. The dew point will be close to the freezing point of water. You will not get condensation.

2. Use the GoPro desiccant strips also. They will address any possible water that MAY be (hypothetically) present on interior surfaces of the camera board, battery etc during your session.


Alternately, you can get close using the "Air Conditioner Fill" method.

Or, you can put the desiccant strips (not toilet paper or paper towel unless it has been super dried in an ELECTRIC oven. into the housing and close it up in hour or two ahead of your session. This will allow the strips to absorb any of the water vapour in the housing.

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Re: GoPro fogging - this is ridiculous!

Postby longwhitecloud » Fri Feb 07, 2014 7:51 am

nappies cut up

great dew point explanation, gonna try a can of wine preserver. they alway seem to fog when the money shots arrive.. got 6-8ft+ fiji f$#4ing fogged up!

nicor
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Re: GoPro fogging - this is ridiculous!

Postby nicor » Fri Feb 07, 2014 3:42 pm

RickI wrote:You want a camera that shoots good, clear images. Bells and whistles are nice too but I would say that is the most important feature for me anyway. I have yet to find another brand that comes close in image quality (sharpness, color fidelity). There were quite a few at Surf Expo, looking into them, they seemed to come up short. You would think someone would come up with one but not yet to my knowledge. There is no problem with fogging in GoPros if you place paper towel sections inside. If you don't bother, a hot camera in a very small housing will fog under some conditions.
nicor wrote:Geez, I was just going to blindly buy a GoPro. I didn't know there were so many other brands.

I'm only going to use the action camera for kiting and maybe some snowboarding.

Seeing there is a fogging problem with gopro, what would be best alternative for kiting?
Thanks for the input. After doing more research than I would have liked, I believe the Gopro is still the best option for the time being.

I'm just a little torn on which model to get: black, silver or white. It seems that the black is quite a bit better in many regards, but not sure if I need such precision. It's my first action camera so not sure I need the top of the line, but if it's only $100 more might just pull the trigger on the black.


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