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 Post subject: Re: North Neo 2014
PostPosted: Mon Feb 17, 2014 11:10 am 
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Joined: Sun Sep 02, 2012 6:25 pm
Posts: 114
Location: Milan
Thanks Westozzy!
I mean jumps with a grab or two (beginner stuff)
I ride both a TT (xride 136) and a surf (wam 5'10)
70kg (155lbs) by 178cm
I've flown 2012/2013 evo, rebel, neo
I like the park and ride of the evo, but too few depower and range
Of the rebel I enjoy hangtime and range, but too slow in the air (you need to work it more than the evo) and not a lover of the 5th
The neo had great smoothness and depower/range, but a bad jumper for an average kiter like me
You can't have it all :-)
Now want to test mew evo and dice
Thanls for the advice


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 Post subject: Re: North Neo 2014
PostPosted: Mon Feb 17, 2014 11:26 am 
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Joined: Wed Oct 16, 2002 1:00 am
Posts: 5598
Location: Denmark
gvironda wrote:
Thanks Westozzy!
I mean jumps with a grab or two (beginner stuff)
I ride both a TT (xride 136) and a surf (wam 5'10)
70kg (155lbs) by 178cm
I've flown 2012/2013 evo, rebel, neo
I like the park and ride of the evo, but too few depower and range
Of the rebel I enjoy hangtime and range, but too slow in the air (you need to work it more than the evo) and not a lover of the 5th
The neo had great smoothness and depower/range, but a bad jumper for an average kiter like me
You can't have it all :-)
Now want to test mew evo and dice
Thanls for the advice


You are absolutely correct - a good wavekite is a really bad jumping kite :wink:

This is why some (and apparently the new Neo are aiming for this too it seems ?) use the Dice, as it is more of an allround kite it seems, a bit more power (equals camber equals less range and depower) which satisfies more allround, and still okay as a wavekite :naughty:

Just an observation :D

8) Peter


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 Post subject: Re: North Neo 2014
PostPosted: Mon Feb 17, 2014 1:05 pm 
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Joined: Mon Oct 14, 2013 11:31 pm
Posts: 13
gvironda wrote:
Thanks Westozzy!
I mean jumps with a grab or two (beginner stuff)
I ride both a TT (xride 136) and a surf (wam 5'10)
70kg (155lbs) by 178cm
I've flown 2012/2013 evo, rebel, neo
I like the park and ride of the evo, but too few depower and range
Of the rebel I enjoy hangtime and range, but too slow in the air (you need to work it more than the evo) and not a lover of the 5th
The neo had great smoothness and depower/range, but a bad jumper for an average kiter like me
You can't have it all :-)
Now want to test mew evo and dice
Thanls for the advice


You are right, demo both the Evo 2014 and Dice! Both are all rounders, the Evo bit better for upwind, jumps and more grunt and bar pressure, Dice lighter in the hands and in the air, better in the waves! And the Evo still turns tight and the Dice still jumps nice!

I don't think you'll find the Evo lacks range, also compared with the Dice.

I'm the same weight/height as you, also ride both TT and Surfboard (just both one or two sizes smaller than you), and I'm gone a 9 Evo 2014 as a 1 kite quiver to cover all from 14 to 25 knots.


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 Post subject: Re: North Neo 2014
PostPosted: Mon Feb 17, 2014 6:30 pm 
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Joined: Thu Feb 14, 2008 2:57 am
Posts: 295
Nice discussion, thanks for the input Westozzy!
Sounds like some of you guys really questions the Neo to be a good waveriding kite (due to it's power it generates in turns).
I rely very much on the information on internet, as i don't have much chance to test kites myself.

It would be nice if an information sheet like below was to be found online somewhere.


Attachments:
Waveride Kites @014.pdf [21.65 KIB]
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 Post subject: Re: North Neo 2014
PostPosted: Tue Feb 18, 2014 1:04 am 
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Joined: Sat Jun 30, 2012 11:25 am
Posts: 2170
Interesting discussion.

First and foremost a large demo day was held over here on the weekend and their was some good feedback on the new Neo. This is because the right size (a size one smaller than the equivalent rebel as a yardstick) was used for each rider.

As kites have become more specialised, more differentiated so to has kites within each discipline. To say a wave kite shouldn't jump as almost a physical law is limiting the truth. Even wave riders have become specialised in what type of wave kite they prefer. The neo has obvious delta influences, has a very good low end (hence on can put a much smaller size up), turns very quick, can jump relatively okay, but with that comes some bar pressure and like all kites with delta influence become and handful at their top end. The dice is C kite based, needs to be worked at it a low end, better to have one size up on the equivalent rebel, but with bridalling and sliders still performs markedly well at its top end.

One interesting aspect about the dice is changing the wingtip connections from the more powered "wakestyle setting' to the wing tip 'surf' setting does produce a significant performance difference. Jumping is no longer an option on the surf setting, it drops quick. Looping is faster but without considerable power. Low end is reduced. Becomes a fun fly and follow kite, loop down the line sort of approach, on the go powered setting a bit of both, but you need to watch the power spikes through the turns and loops on a wave.

Now jumping...you say the dice jumps...weeeellll that depends on your definition of jumping. Only yesterday I was on the new 12 rebel, my buddy on the 12m dice, side by side swapping at will. Both riding laluz TTs on The flat.

Now personally I use a simple board off to gauge hang time. I do 5 or 6 with the same technique and see what gives. Wind was only 15 to 17 ish so not nuking.... The rebel I was able to get a simple back tip board off, but needed to be precise. The dice forget it, one foot out and that's it. Now I've been on the dices for 6 months have the jump dialled in as good as any...I mean I landed a few but only just!!! Looked and felt awkward. So eventually I went back to the old dark slides, powered loops, rally's, black bla bla..what it is good at!!

..funny enough my buddy hasn't flown many kites with aspect and couldn't get the rebel as high as the dice!, hence all this talk is subjective based on the riders experience...I've flown rebels, edges VXs so I understand aspect and how to use it.

So does the dice jump...yeeees when powered enough, but it's no rebel, it's no Evo, That being said it doesn't drop you, some very predictable smooth hang time...except in the surf setting as mentioned you just drop like crap and are always forced to loop.

Let's be clear, the dice is no all rounder in the waves like a wainmen, lithium, trigger, catalyst and all those type of all rounders. It will smoke them all. It can hold its head up high against any wave kite....freestyle...yeh not as much slack as a Vegas...a lot less...but for powered hooked in freestyle and soft unhooked basic stuff it rocks. I've been on just about every wave kite that's been put out this year (except the new epic one, working on that) and from where I stand you are giving the dice not enough credit if you place it in the all rounder category as a wave kite. It's far more than that.

The Evo...I gotta try it again...the last kite I wish to demo again this year as I've been on so many I'm damn well over it to be honest. But I had the back lines way to over tuned when I tried it and I want to try it on the soft settings. But it will beat the dice on the jumps...the real jumps I mean. I'm sure crew would unhook them to but not as easy as the Vegas and dice, or to loop, we aren't all Tom Hebert I'm afraid. I wish I could handle the power of the Evo and do everything I do on the dice, but I'm honest when I say the consequences would be too much for this 40 yr old body...


So in summary even within wave kites there is so much differentiation now, to say a wave kite must of this and that is no longer apt. It depends on hey the riders skill, weight, board, wind and wave conditions. Also when you say jump....do you mean JUMP!!...or just....jump. :D


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 Post subject: Re: North Neo 2014
PostPosted: Tue Feb 18, 2014 4:33 pm 
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Joined: Sun Oct 21, 2012 2:17 am
Posts: 60
Hi westozzz MR dice ,would you recommend a 10m dice with a 12 m evo 2013 quiver as i weight about 215 (full muscle ) in comparison with a 2014 9m evo or maybe a 8m neo ! The high end of the dice seems to be the best of the three ,not to mention ,the FUN FACTOR ....THANKS OZZZZZ :thumb:


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 Post subject: Re: North Neo 2014
PostPosted: Tue Feb 18, 2014 11:36 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jun 30, 2012 11:25 am
Posts: 2170
Yeh that sounds about right...2014 10m dice or the 2014 9m Evo or the 8m neo 2014. Depends on what you want to do in the higher winds big fella. Dice, neo waves, freestyle and freeride respectively. Evo bit of everything, but the better booster out of the three. All depends hey. Reckon the new neo and 2013 Evo would share some riding similarities with the delta in them...

Depends. Mr dice...lol, don't know about that, just commenting on the particular kite we are all riding as a crew this year. Could be another next year. Flown a lot of kites and they all have their advantages and disadvantages including the dice, just depends on where you are at, the boards you use, and water and wind conditions. I do think north have upped their game this year I must say having compared them against others. But if I wanted to go huge I wouldn't be on a dice, I'd be on a screamer between you and me... Scary sh1t man. If I wanted to go relatively big but have a little wave action it might be a rebel, if it was airtime maybe a dyno, If I wanted just a wave kite specifically it be a airush wave or a drifter or a BWS pro...If I wanted a pure C kite I'd be on a fuel or a torch, a softer C a Vegas or C4.

There is no holy grail of kites, just one that fits you. Ride don't just read.


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 Post subject: Re: North Neo 2014
PostPosted: Thu Feb 20, 2014 4:34 pm 
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Joined: Sun Oct 21, 2012 2:17 am
Posts: 60
Thank s westozzz i ll try do demo one before i make my choice ,keep on giving your tips for tuning correctly the kites ( VERY IMPORTANT) with the wind and board (TT OR SB) we ride. I just began playing with the knots of the back lines last year :roll: makes a HUGE difference ! I ll keep an eye on it when i demo one to improve the low end ,high end ,bar pressure ,boost.unhook etc. CHEERS :thumb:


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 Post subject: Re: North Neo 2014
PostPosted: Thu Feb 20, 2014 11:55 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jun 30, 2012 11:25 am
Posts: 2170
Just make sure you get a much smaller size than you normally would think possible otherwise you will think wtf is this....think 9m rebel...then 8m neo. Weird considering the great low end of a rebel 2012/2014.


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 Post subject: Re: North Neo 2014
PostPosted: Fri Feb 21, 2014 8:07 pm 
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Joined: Sun Oct 21, 2012 2:17 am
Posts: 60
Ok thanks man ! :thumb:


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