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 Post subject: RPM vs Dice
PostPosted: Thu Jan 16, 2014 6:36 pm 
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Location: Belgiuim - Zeeland
hi all,

I just tried the new Dice and I liked it a lot, however i tried only for 10 minutes therefore I am not sure what to expect out of it as a new kite.

I fly RPMs and I would like to know from you if you can compare the low end and the high end of these 2 kites for the 10m size.

For the rest it seems that the Dice is jumping higher but the RPM gives better performances when unhooked.

PS: on the Dice the safety is on 1 front line, it is not both or can it work on eather ways?

Thanks a lot guys :)


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 Post subject: Re: RPM vs DICE
PostPosted: Thu Jan 16, 2014 7:19 pm 
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Location: Hood River
I can't compare the Dice to the RPM, but just to clarify, the Dice works on a double front-line release... The pulleys slide together so the kite lays over on its back or nose like a 5th line. I do not know if the kite's safety will work if flown on a bar that releases to a single front line (which I believe is what the RPM bar uses).

-Dan


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 Post subject: Re: RPM vs Dice
PostPosted: Fri Jan 17, 2014 12:32 am 
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Both kites have a superb feel at the bar end. I really liked the rpm.

You are pretty spot on, the rpm does unhook better, easier to get slack in the lines, a really nicely balanced kite hey. Loops are tighter, but both kites accelerate through the loop though.

Dice has a better low end, does jump better (Definetly more hang time if flown correctly), and is significantly better in the waves, when it gets serious (a lot kites are compared in wave conditions that most kites would be useable...get them out in serious conditions where the kites true wave capabilities are tested).


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 Post subject: Re: RPM vs Dice
PostPosted: Fri Jan 17, 2014 12:41 pm 
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Location: Belgiuim - Zeeland
Thanks a lot for your valuable input :thumb:

any other info about highend and lowend compared with the same size RPM?


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 Post subject: Re: RPM vs Dice
PostPosted: Fri Jan 17, 2014 6:12 pm 
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Hey!

I own an RPM Range and just recently tested the Dice of a friend for a day. I must, say, I am quiet impressed by the Dice. Given, that I would probably not buy it as a total beginner, as the kite does need a intermediate hand ;) However, I found that unhooked you don't need the speed of the RPM. Instead it can be flown a lot more like a proper C Kite, with lower speed going into the unhooked jumps. Thats actually the reason why I was impressed, because usually a kite is either very good in the waves OR very good unhooked. Example for great wave performance and bad unhooked power is the North Neo. Anyway, I am seriously considering a change from the RPM to the Dice.

I am not sure, if you can fly the Dice on single front line safety, I will try it soon tho like this: 5th element bar at hand, and SAFE, big beach no people environment with heavy help ;) Simply attaching all lines like normal, but attach the 5th line to one of the frontline positions of the Dice and removing the now obsolet second frontline. That way you would have a single frontline safety to try. Bear in mind, that you might need to remove the stopper ball above the Y in order for it to work.

Cheers!


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 Post subject: Re: RPM vs Dice
PostPosted: Fri Jan 17, 2014 6:12 pm 
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Location: The Naki
Hey dan.
How many hours of use before you need to replace the pullies and bridle on the dice.

Ps I flew a 10 dice on an ozone bar. Its flew sweet. Plus I landed it using the walk up the front lines a couple of meters and yank the top line technique. It landed sweet. Which makes me think it would flag out on a single line safety.


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 Post subject: Re: RPM vs Dice
PostPosted: Fri Jan 17, 2014 7:41 pm 
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Location: Hood River
plummet-

No idea on how many hours are needed before replacing the bridle/pulley. We've had demo Dice in constant use for about 5 months and haven't needed to replace anything, however I did notice that the line through which the pulley travels seems to be wearing more quickly than the corresponding line on an Evo/Fuse. That said, I've never had to replace a bridle line in any of our demo kites and we only occasionally see the need to do so for older customers' kites that have seen years of use. I've never seen one of our pulleys need to be replaced due to use... The occasional request for pulleys generally seems to be to replace lost ones.

All that being said, any time you have a bridle line going through a pulley you should check the line and the pulley often and replace when it starts showing signs of wear, before there is a critical failure. They are generally cheap and very easily replaced in less than 5 minutes.

As far as the safety... Good to know that the self-land worked well on the Ozone bar, but just to be clear, this does not mean that the safety will work when the kite is flying. Our 4-line kites are designed to work on our 4-line bar with dual front-line safety or our 5-line bar with 5th line safety. From what I hear, all of our newer 4-line kites have been working with single-front-line systems, but I don't know that myself and I certainly would not bet my life on it without serious testing. If you are testing a North kite on a non-North bar make sure your leash has a release that works under load and make sure you're comfortable using it and you're aware that it may be necessary to do so before you hit the primary release.

-Dan


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 Post subject: Re: RPM vs Dice
PostPosted: Fri Jan 17, 2014 9:46 pm 
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Location: Belgiuim - Zeeland
plummet wrote:
Hey dan.
How many hours of use before you need to replace the pullies and bridle on the dice.

Ps I flew a 10 dice on an ozone bar. Its flew sweet. Plus I landed it using the walk up the front lines a couple of meters and yank the top line technique. It landed sweet. Which makes me think it would flag out on a single line safety.


I was checking the safety type for 2 reasons:

1. can I use a bar with single safety
2. can I land the kite by walk up on the front lines

on the 2. point I would like to understand if it is possible to walk until the kite by holding both fronts as I normally do on my RPMs.
I thought with a double front safety it was not possible since the kite was flagging by holding it by the fronts but maybe i was wrong...
can you share your experience on this? :jump:

PS nobody commented yet on the high end and low end compare with the same size RPM... :o


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 Post subject: Re: RPM vs Dice
PostPosted: Sat Jan 18, 2014 1:08 am 
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Well I was looking over a 12m dice on yesterday that has had at least 120 - 150 sessions since early September. Yes, it's been one of those seasons, we have chased the wind from up north until it got here and we kite more than most!!

The pulley line does look 'matted' at the point of wear but nothing to warrant an exchange.

As Dan said just keep an eye on it. By the way they use one piece sliders not pulleys so to speak.

Babel has a keen eye and very astute observation. While a beginner could easily fly and feel comfortable on this dice, what seems to be apparent is some true potential for the intermediate to advanced rider. A lot of kites get to a point and they start to limit an intermediate wanting to move into the advanced stage, not this kite. Your observations on the unhooked aspect of this kite is also very astute. Wait to you unhook it in the waves....pow!!


Listen I was looking for a certain 12m. Damn we demoed at least 15 different kites over 2 months. Both my bro and I had to submit in the end and add a 12m dice to our quiver. Some kites did certain things a little better, but as an all round performance kite, that holds it's own and some against specifically designed wave kites, we couldn't beat it. We tried!

Rpm is still a wonderful kite, such a beautiful feel through the bar. You feel at home straight away and like the dice has some true advanced potential built in. But the dice will kill its low end for the same size and the top end of the dice is impressive.

I'm only 75kg riding a 135 by 41 laluz one time on a 9m in 25 to 30. Most guys were on 7m kites and maxed out and the SB riders on 5m kites, all heavier than me. Could have gone a bit more. Very stable kite in high winds.

Each to their own, and some I know don't like this kite. Why, I'm not sure, but we love it for freestyle surf...and in the higher winds, she's a pretty decent booster....oh and the loops...pow!


Yeh I'm still to try the dice on an ozone bar...gotta do that!!!

I'd be careful walking up the front lines in heavy winds with a high Y. I got my assed handed to me on a Vegas once trying that technique. Not sure id trust a single line flagging bar on a double in high winds and where you'd need it most!!


As far low end unhooked power I suppose you are right to but I found I could get more slack more easily on the rpm. Marginal but there unless you really loaded and popped with aggression then much of a muchness.

Of the rpm is okay in the waves but not even in the same league as the dice. Not many are though.


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 Post subject: Re: RPM vs Dice
PostPosted: Sat Jan 18, 2014 5:11 pm 
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Location: Belgiuim - Zeeland
i just bought a 10m to replace my rpm 10m.... hopefully I won't lose high end....

anyway thank you for your precious input


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