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The danger of leashes

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badgb21
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Re: The danger of leashes

Postby badgb21 » Sun Feb 16, 2014 8:15 pm

I agree, replacing the caribiner for something that doesn’t catch lines or your skin, would be a good idea. However I’m not sure a larks head would stay in place, given the line is not under tension.
I would favor something like NYKiter’s picture.

As for the big rope loop end of this particular leash (Ozone Shorty), please don’t larks head this around your spreader bar as a previous poster suggested, it will lock the rope in place, it needs to run free to release from your spreader, as per the pic above.

I would prefer if this leash did separate into two pieces, (say, like a Cabrinha) so the rope could be fixed to your harness/spreader. As it is, the big rope loop could catch when released.




The nice thing about this design is how easy it is to replace that carabiner. You can grab any pigtail they make for lines, and use that instead of a carabiner to attach and detach it to your safety attachment. You lark's head the ozone shorty to the pigtail (sew it to lock it in if u want), run the pigtail thru the safety and lark's head it to itself, to undo you just undo the lark's head.

Leashes usually have that carabiner sewn on so it's more difficult to replace.[/quote]

tomatkins
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Re: The danger of leashes

Postby tomatkins » Sun Feb 16, 2014 8:49 pm

Any type of connector will be a "step backwards" unless it can be opened and closed with ONLY one hand.

The principle of convenient "one-hand-operation" applies to almost every piece of kiteboarding equipment as it is used for adjustment on the water... from the bottom (boots, bindings, foot straps) to the top (helmets, cameras.)

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Bille
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Re: The danger of leashes

Postby Bille » Sun Feb 16, 2014 9:57 pm

NYKiter wrote:WOW
I use this instead, much easier to clip in during solo launches...

Image


That's the type clip used on my original Peter-Lynn 2003 Guerilla !!
Dang, that was a while back ; where did the Time go ? !!!

That original clip was made of brass, and was kinda heavy ; where
did you get yours from , and can Ya tall me what it's made of please ?

I'd like to see someone make that design from titanium ; it was
easy to use , and Never came unDone, but more importantly it
was near impossible for it to hook on some unwanted object like
a flying line or a body appendage .

Bille

badgb21
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Re: The danger of leashes

Postby badgb21 » Sun Feb 16, 2014 10:42 pm

I've been trawling some old threads (some very old!) on this subject.
Also looked at spec of the trigger snap and the max work load limit I can find is around 200lbs with lots of warnings not to use for human safety.
The regular style of kite leash clip has nearer 1000lbs MWL

I'm back to thinking about some kind of cover (pvc tube) for the current clip style to prevent catching lines and flesh.......
Anyone with any new ideas?

Kev





Bille wrote:
NYKiter wrote:WOW
I use this instead, much easier to clip in during solo launches...


That's the type clip used on my original Peter-Lynn 2003 Guerilla !!
Dang, that was a while back ; where did the Time go ? !!!

That original clip was made of brass, and was kinda heavy ; where
did you get yours from , and can Ya tall me what it's made of please ?

I'd like to see someone make that design from titanium ; it was
easy to use , and Never came unDone, but more importantly it
was near impossible for it to hook on some unwanted object like
a flying line or a body appendage .

Bille

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Re: The danger of leashes

Postby RichardM » Sun Feb 16, 2014 10:46 pm

.
Bille wrote:
NYKiter wrote:WOW
I use this instead, much easier to clip in during solo launches...

Image


That's the type clip used on my original Peter-Lynn 2003 Guerilla !!
Dang, that was a while back ; where did the Time go ? !!!

That original clip was made of brass, and was kinda heavy ; where
did you get yours from , and can Ya tall me what it's made of please ?

I'd like to see someone make that design from titanium ; it was
easy to use , and Never came unDone, but more importantly it
was near impossible for it to hook on some unwanted object like
a flying line or a body appendage .

Bille


They are sold at many building supply/hardware stores.

They come in pot metal, brass and stainless steel.

The pot metal corrodes quickly in salt water. I don’t know about fresh water. I’ve had the best luck with brass (for the price) but good stainless should theoretically be better.

It isn’t necessary to remove the spring type gated carabiner to try alternate solutions. Just attach the new item using the spring type gated carabiner and then tape around the carabiner to disable it.

I personally think the most dangerous aspect of spring type gated carabiners is the relative ease by which a line can get caught inside by pressing on the gate and once inside it is effectively IMPOSSIBLE to get out. This is ESPECIALLY dangerous when the clip is between the leash QR and the body, since a trapped line effectively PERMANENTLY attaches the kiter to the UNCONTROLLABLE kite.

Richard M.
Malibu Kitesurfing - since 2002
(310) - 430 - KITE (5483)
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kfRichard@MalibuKitesurfing.NET

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Bille
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Re: The danger of leashes

Postby Bille » Sun Feb 16, 2014 10:51 pm

RichardM wrote:.

...

I personally think the most dangerous aspect of spring type gated carabiners is the relative ease by which a line can get caught inside by pressing on the gate and once inside it is effectively IMPOSSIBLE to get out. This is ESPECIALLY dangerous when the clip is between the leash QR and the body, since a trapped line effectively PERMANENTLY attaches the kiter to the UNCONTROLLABLE kite.

Richard M.
Malibu Kitesurfing - since 2002
(310) - 430 - KITE (5483)
http://www.MalibuKitesurfing.NET
kfRichard@MalibuKitesurfing.NET


OH --- now That's NOT good ; forums are Great for that type info.
Just because I never had an issue with something, doesn't mean that
issues don't exist !!

Bille

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Re: The danger of leashes

Postby matth » Sun Feb 16, 2014 11:04 pm

What about a leash with QR on both end. Most are very easy to reset and it always nice to have another means of release.

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NYKiter
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Re: The danger of leashes

Postby NYKiter » Sun Feb 16, 2014 11:34 pm

Spring gated carabiners are tough to work with.
During solo launches, every 10th of a second matters - especially in cold weather. I've had my dry gloves and mits get caught in them while attempting to leash in on the post. The more one dawdles the more dangerous this launch gets. Anything that takes my eyes off the kite (like dealing with caught gloves) is unacceptable. Here is my leash mod. I don't unhook so I'm fine with it positioned below the hook on sthe spreader. I use this lobster claw on my pumps as well. One time i hooked it to my two bridal lines while pumping up...mistake - each claw opened as the bridals pulled from opposite directions and the kite went away. What are the odds this guy hooked his arm like that...rather amazing...Good thread.

Image

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Re: The danger of leashes

Postby edt » Mon Feb 17, 2014 12:44 am

badgb21 wrote:sure a larks head would stay in place, given the line is not under tension.



I am sure a lark's head is fine. There are a few ounces of weight from the leash that is plenty to keep it from coming undone.

But toma's point is probably why it isn't ever used. From reading other responses here it's clear kiters need to leash and unleash in less than a second for various reasons. I guess the carabiner design is here to stay, it's the fastest way to take the leash on and off.

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Re: The danger of leashes

Postby BWD » Mon Feb 17, 2014 2:01 am

The regular style of kite leash clip has nearer 1000lbs MWL

Another reason not to use it. Although when the true concerns are shock loads, corrosion and fatigue, MWL may not be the most meaningful number anyway.
When windsurfing years ago I once crashed so hard in shallow water my stainless harness hook straightened out. I still hit my head and hurt my shoulder on the bottom. Good thing it straightened out, or I might have had a broken neck . Better if the hook had snapped clean off IMO.


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