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When to switch to a waist harness

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Flight Time
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Re: When to switch to a waist harness

Postby Flight Time » Tue Mar 18, 2014 12:18 am

LOL Loco, great pun!

Now see, boardshorts harnesses are ok. Its the ones that look like a diaper that's already been... filled, that look bad.

Now as to kiteboarding being the only sport where a rider is suspended without something to sit on... Kiteboarders don't spend the entire session suspended. They do short bursts of 5 or so seconds, and hopefully longer, while pulling down on the bar, and then spend 30 seconds getting back the ground they lost on the jump. Hell, half the wakestyle guys and the wave-carvers barely get suspended at all, given that the wakestylers are going unhooked most of the time. None of the other "suspended" sports spend time off the harness, save for rock climbers. But rock climbers and skydivers and base jumpers need the seat harness for sudden impacts, and sometimes for belaying or rappelling for the climbers. None of the sudden downward impacts are there in kiteboarding, and though you may want to, you can't spend several minutes airborne with your whole weight being supported by the harness. Your argument is therefore invalid. Thank you, come again! :bye:

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Re: When to switch to a waist harness

Postby IWB2 » Tue Mar 18, 2014 12:22 am

Kiting Trex,
Personally, i would use the seat harness while learning to use your surf board and once you are comfortable riding the new board then give the waist a go. It is possible that if you go straight to the waist harness and give the new surf board a go in waves that you will not be impressed with your session. When you do go for a waist harness, the Dakine Pyro or Renegade are solid choices.

Lots of funny comments about seat harnesses. Slightly off topic but I remember many years ago watching Vidar Jensen and his brother (both Euro professional windsurfers) throwing down some highest jumps at Pozo (Gran Canaria). These guys would leave the beach and hit the first set of waves and fly!! Vidar Jensen was world #1 in waves on the PWA tour at one point. The impressive part was that the two brothers both wore seat harnesses which was definitely not the norm on the PWA tour.

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Re: When to switch to a waist harness

Postby Thieu » Tue Mar 18, 2014 12:58 am

Flight Time wrote: Now as to kiteboarding being the only sport where a rider is suspended without something to sit on... Kiteboarders don't spend the entire session suspended. They do short bursts of 5 or so seconds, and hopefully longer, while pulling down on the bar, and then spend 30 seconds getting back the ground they lost on the jump. Hell, half the wakestyle guys and the wave-carvers barely get suspended at all, given that the wakestylers are going unhooked most of the time. None of the other "suspended" sports spend time off the harness, save for rock climbers. But rock climbers and skydivers and base jumpers need the seat harness for sudden impacts, and sometimes for belaying or rappelling for the climbers. None of the sudden downward impacts are there in kiteboarding, and though you may want to, you can't spend several minutes airborne with your whole weight being supported by the harness. Your argument is therefore invalid. Thank you, come again! :bye:
FYI; a sudden upward force when jumping has the same effect on your body as a sudden force when deploying a parachute.
About the "can't spend several minutes airborne" argument. During one day of kiting, yes, I spend several minutes suspended.

I'm not "for" or "against" any type of harness. I use both. I just don't agree with the common knowledge in kiting saying that seat harness "are more suited for women and learners". (And I don't think any rock climber have more hemorrhoid than longwhitecloud.)

But still, I agree with you about wakestyle & waist harness.

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Re: When to switch to a waist harness

Postby matth » Tue Mar 18, 2014 1:16 am

Thieu wrote:
Flight Time wrote:It's not so much about being core, its about not looking like you are wearing a pre-loaded diaper. Plus, I think there are practical reasons.
Funny how a relatively new sport build his own culture from such mysterious facts. So seat harness are "not cool" and "break b*lls".

I hope for paragliders, climbers, base jumpers, and many others; that seat harness are more considered as "fashionable". Go make a parachute jump with a waist harness, it will be soo cool and core!! Taken from facts!!

Kiteboarding might be the only sport (needs to be verified) where the body is suspended ; and doesn't use a seat harness in most common usage.
This debates been going on forever in the windsurfer world. Seat vs waist. it looks like a diaper , blah blah blah. Do I want the stress on the arch of my back and my rib cage or spread out over my hips,ass, and legs with almost zero risk of injury. The seat haters only have one line( it looks like a diaper) because otherwise they offer superior performance. Slaves to fashion.....

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Flight Time
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Re: When to switch to a waist harness

Postby Flight Time » Tue Mar 18, 2014 1:26 am

Thieu wrote: FYI; a sudden upward force when jumping has the same effect on your body as a sudden force when deploying a parachute.
About the "can't spend several minutes airborne" argument. During one day of kiting, yes, I spend several minutes suspended.

I'm not "for" or "against" any type of harness. I use both. I just don't agree with the common knowledge in kiting saying that seat harness "are more suited for women and learners". (And I don't think any rock climber have more hemorrhoid than longwhitecloud.)

But still, I agree with you about wakestyle & waist harness.
Yes, the effect is the same, but slower. No matter how hard you boost, you won't be subjected to as many Gs as the deployment of a parachute from terminal velocity, and then left with your entire body weight suspended for 5 minutes nonstop as you descend. Sure, during a day, I will spend several moments in the air, but not all at once, as much as I may want to. Imagine the height of a 5 minute boost! :lol:

I didn't say anything about seat harnesses being more for women and learners. It would seem that certain features of womens' anatomy would prevent the harness riding too high... :thumb:

matth
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Re: When to switch to a waist harness

Postby matth » Tue Mar 18, 2014 1:34 am

Flight Time wrote:
Thieu wrote: FYI; a sudden upward force when jumping has the same effect on your body as a sudden force when deploying a parachute.
About the "can't spend several minutes airborne" argument. During one day of kiting, yes, I spend several minutes suspended.

I'm not "for" or "against" any type of harness. I use both. I just don't agree with the common knowledge in kiting saying that seat harness "are more suited for women and learners". (And I don't think any rock climber have more hemorrhoid than longwhitecloud.)

But still, I agree with you about wakestyle & waist harness.
Yes, the effect is the same, but slower. No matter how hard you boost, you won't be subjected to as many Gs as the deployment of a parachute from terminal velocity, and then left with your entire body weight suspended for 5 minutes nonstop as you descend. Sure, during a day, I will spend several moments in the air, but not all at once, as much as I may want to. Imagine the height of a 5 minute boost! :lol:

I didn't say anything about seat harnesses being more for women and learners. It would seem that certain features of womens' anatomy would prevent the harness riding too high... :thumb:
Then why do you think there are so many rib injuries? Which can take you out of action for weeks or even months.... no thanks
If people like waist harnesses that fine, But they are not a progression in control or performance.
The opposite IMO..

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Re: When to switch to a waist harness

Postby SupaEZ » Tue Mar 18, 2014 1:48 am

How about a thread...When to switch to a seat harness ...or how about no harness at all !!

I did not use a harness in 1978 & 1979 using with my first Windsurfer one design

In the 80's had a chest harness Windsurfing Hawaii ..liked the hook high..(pointing up)..to ride waves

Had no harness in spring-summer 1999 learning to use my 5.0 Wipika

Wore a waist in the 90's to Windsurf.....still with waist (hook down)for Kitesurfing...
...my boys love their freedom
Last edited by SupaEZ on Tue Mar 18, 2014 1:51 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Flight Time
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Re: When to switch to a waist harness

Postby Flight Time » Tue Mar 18, 2014 1:50 am

matth wrote:This debates been going on forever in the windsurfer world. Seat vs waist. it looks like a diaper , blah blah blah. Do I want the stress on the arch of my back and my rib cage or spread out over my hips,ass, and legs with almost zero risk of injury. The seat haters only have one line( it looks like a diaper) because otherwise they offer superior performance. Slaves to fashion.....
Almost zero risk of injury versus nearly almost zero risk of injury. I have heard of a couple strained lower backs, and a couple broken ribs for the crowd that is regularly tossing three story megaloops, but given the number of kiters on the water versus those that were injured as a direct result of a waist harness, you'd have to admit the odds are on par with being mauled by a great white shark.

Superior performance "depends" (LOL) on what style of riding they are used for. If they were so safe and offer such superior performance, why were there no seat harness to be seen at King Of The Air, where people were boosting high enough to clear a 7 story building?

But hey, if you want a seat harness, go for it. I understand that you are a pillar of individuality who could give a damn about looking like you might have soiled yourself, or are possibly planning for the eventuality of soiling yourself. But if the option existed to look decent in a boardshorts version of a seat harness... Why not?
Last edited by Flight Time on Tue Mar 18, 2014 1:57 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Flight Time
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Re: When to switch to a waist harness

Postby Flight Time » Tue Mar 18, 2014 1:56 am

SupaEZ wrote:or how about no harness at all !!
LOL, I remember one guy kiting for about 20 minutes at the local spot with no harness at all, and making it look good, tossing some handle passes. Maybe he forgot it at home and didn't feel like going back for it. After a little while, he was worn out and spent the rest of the day shooting the sh!t with the beach seat crowd. :lol:

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Re: When to switch to a waist harness

Postby matth » Tue Mar 18, 2014 3:46 am

Flight Time wrote:
matth wrote:This debates been going on forever in the windsurfer world. Seat vs waist. it looks like a diaper , blah blah blah. Do I want the stress on the arch of my back and my rib cage or spread out over my hips,ass, and legs with almost zero risk of injury. The seat haters only have one line( it looks like a diaper) because otherwise they offer superior performance. Slaves to fashion.....
Almost zero risk of injury versus nearly almost zero risk of injury. I have heard of a couple strained lower backs, and a couple broken ribs for the crowd that is regularly tossing three story megaloops, but given the number of kiters on the water versus those that were injured as a direct result of a waist harness, you'd have to admit the odds are on par with being mauled by a great white shark.

Superior performance "depends" (LOL) on what style of riding they are used for. If they were so safe and offer such superior performance, why were there no seat harness to be seen at King Of The Air, where people were boosting high enough to clear a 7 story building?

But hey, if you want a seat harness, go for it. I understand that you are a pillar of individuality who could give a damn about looking like you might have soiled yourself, or are possibly planning for the eventuality of soiling yourself. But if the option existed to look decent in a boardshorts version of a seat harness... Why not?

soil yourself....Nice!


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