Aummm, dude what's with you and strutless designs? You've been at it for a while. You sound so angry about the whole strutless thing. It's almost like you are bitter because it wasn't you bringing it to the market. It's ok, let it go...
Not sure luffing and fluttering necessarily equates to cheap.
Having a few session under my belt with an MHL Lift and a 14.5 C2, I feel it is a great combo. Where the bang comes in for my buck is hours logged. When you have to take what you can get on weekends and in the last hour of daylight during the work week, this set up has really opened up a lot more time to the possibility of kiting for me because before so much time was written off because it was too light.
Also I find myself eyeing stretches of water that were previously out of the question due to being upwind of any good launch or being afraid of dropping my relatively heavy kite. I'm still getting used to not worrying about the kite falling out every second.
Cordoba wrote:Aummm, dude what's with you and strutless designs? You've been at it for a while. You sound so angry about the whole strutless thing. It's almost like you are bitter because it wasn't you bringing it to the market. It's ok, let it go...
@ronnie -- Nice theory, but since those are my videos I can tell you it's incorrect.
In the first one at Crissy in SF Bay I am luffing because I am overpowered, riding my Lift slalom foil with an 8m C1 in 19-23mph wind. In the second video in Patagonia I am not luffing because I was perfectly powered, again on the 8m C1, same foil, in ~15mph wind. Luffing in the first case was simply due being sheeted way (way) out. Riding at Crissy often results in this, because it's so much windier out in the bay vs. at the beach. This is exacerbated by the efficiency of the foil; you need _some_ kite to get off the beach, but once you get up on the foil out in the bay, a 5m would often be enough.
So, I am still learning, but it's more about learning how little kite I can get away with, not so much about trimming the kite.
I would agree with the comments about visual/auditory feedback on sail/kite trim. As an experienced small-boat sailor, I trim by feel, and I brought that experience to my kiting. Use telltales and the sound of the sail is a big part of learning to trim a sail, and that's a great way to "turn the negative into a positive" on the Clouds. I don't think of the luffing as a negative anyway, but that's a great way to spell out how it's a feature
Thanks for the review and the discussion - always interesting!
ronnie wrote:You can see in these two videos of a C1 8m Cloud, that when he is in the earlier stages of learning to foil and fly the kite, he has the kite luffed more. Then, in the Patagonia video a couple of months later, he is riding with hardly any luffing. I think that is because he is more comfortable on the foil and more tuned into the kite (or it may be because the wind is steadier).
Just got my C2 17M Wed and a perfect opportunity to ride it Fri. Kite is a beautiful machine for free-ride snow kiting. I wouldn't think it would serve the guys gliding very well without struts but for a great free ride experience it was all I could want. I don't know what the wind speeds were. They were light at the start and the kite got me everywhere I wanted to go & loops SO nicely! Probably 1/2 way through my session(6-7hours) the wind picked up to maybe good 12M conditions & I had no trouble holding it down. Even building big apparent wind on descents & tons of speed the kite would stay where I wanted it & not yank me off track & the day ended up a top 3 day for me all season.
Not sure if its been mentioned but the kite sits on its wingtip & very well behaved for tethered self launches & landings. Its an important feature for me as where I live I kite solo often. 100 miles to the next closest kiter.
As stated a few times already Greg is a hell of a guy to deal with!!!! I was blown away with how personally attentive & thorough he was to my questions. I'm pretty sure there's more sizes in my future. I can definitely see how this kite would be an ideal surf oriented kite. Its definitely a fantastic free-ride oriented snow kite. I'm having visions of back-country skinning into unchartered terrain with this kite.
I was having some trouble boosting correctly with it - though it wanted to float nicely I kept getting it too far overhead & winding up on my ass. Totally me I'm sure & need to dial in the technique for this kite. I just don't have this issue flying my SS Rallys.
I owe a lot of my inspiration to purchase the kite to this thread & the comparisons you guys have done....so.... Thanks! for the efforts & insights