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 Post subject: North wind charts
PostPosted: Fri Mar 21, 2014 4:12 am 
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North shows the 12m Rebel at 12 knts to 28knts. I was out tonight on my 12m and at 28nkts I was getting overpowered bigtime. I weight 185lbs and handle high winds well , but no expert. I Feel like 23 knots might be a more realistic top end for the 12m, at least for your average joe. I took a look at the wind chart for the Cabrhina switchblade 12m and found a dramatic difference. Cab has the SB listed at about 12 to 18knts. The Cab chart seems a little conservative and the North a little on the high side.


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 Post subject: Re: North wind charts
PostPosted: Fri Mar 21, 2014 4:16 am 
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But you got in safely right...?

There's different types of wind to...


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 Post subject: Re: North wind charts
PostPosted: Fri Mar 21, 2014 3:05 pm 
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Whats needed is a rough standard that lists optimal kite size selection based on many factors - such as:

Wind speed
Temperature (cold=dense, hot = less dense)
Board type (TT, directional)
Board size (130, 150 etc.)
Kite type (bow, delta, C etc.)
Riding preference (wake, freestyle, wave, etc.)
Line Length
Bar size
and on an on...

Getting manufacturers to participate would be like herding cats...


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 Post subject: Re: North wind charts
PostPosted: Fri Mar 21, 2014 3:57 pm 
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Yeah im 75kg and like to rig big kites but I think the listed high ends for the rebels are a bit too high. At 28 knots I'd be powered on my 9m.


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 Post subject: Re: North wind charts
PostPosted: Sat Mar 22, 2014 7:34 pm 
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Joined: Thu Aug 28, 2008 1:49 am
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Location: The Gorge/La Ventana
I've observed the same with North - the listed upper-end number is too high.

Another gripe I have - North no longer lists the projected area number for each kite size. That makes it virtually impossible to compare one size with another in terms of percentage (increase or decrease from one size to another). Such information is very useful when determining the best sizes for a quiver of kites.

Also, North no longer lists the aspect ratio of each kite. ???

Can anyone from NKB explain why this data is no longer provided to their current and potential customers?


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 Post subject: Re: North wind charts
PostPosted: Thu Mar 27, 2014 2:28 am 
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Location: The Gorge
We don't get much strong wind here, so there's a lot of guys that add an extra pigtail to their rear lines on their 12m and ride up to 30 mph+ sometimes. Not the smartest thing to do but it works when there's no point in buying a smaller kite for the 3 days a year you can ride it.

I think those upper ranges start to indicate the point where the drag of the canopy exceeds the lift. In other words, the point where more depower becomes pointless because the canopy will just keep pulling because of its drag.


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 Post subject: Re: North wind charts
PostPosted: Thu Mar 27, 2014 4:00 am 
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I just noticed Norths web page for the Rebel says 12 to28knts. But the printed manual says 13to25knt which seems much more realistic.


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 Post subject: Re: North wind charts
PostPosted: Thu Mar 27, 2014 7:04 am 
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Joined: Wed Nov 09, 2005 12:41 pm
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The wind charts does not seem reliable and probaly isn't updated either. Reading post about riders testing the Neo 2014 saying that you gotta choose one size smaller than the Rebel but the lower wind range is the same in the chart between the two models.


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 Post subject: Re: North wind charts
PostPosted: Thu Mar 27, 2014 8:01 pm 
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Location: The Gorge/La Ventana
unbob wrote:
Can anyone from NKB explain why this data is no longer provided to their current and potential customers?
Dan-at-North, where are you?


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 Post subject: Re: North wind charts
PostPosted: Fri Mar 28, 2014 5:32 pm 
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Location: Hood River
Sorry. As I mentioned in a previous post it's been insane busy here. Just noticed this post. If you have specific questions in the future feel free to PM me in case I miss something.

As to the windranges... As people have mentioned, these are extremely subjective. Besides windspeed, it also depends a lot on the person (weight, style of riding, board being used, experience, etc.) and location (chop, waves, current, wind direction and quality, etc). The windranges listed are not an objective guide for what to rig, just something to give you an idea. We try to stay consistent across the charts so that if you know how you compare on one of our kites, you can infer how you'll compare on other models/sizes. As to the new Neo being less accurate, it's entirely possible. Totally new design. Working on getting it dialed. Far more useful than any online chart is talking to a retailer. We do a pretty good job of handpicking and working with our retailers to make sure they know our lineup, and they'll be really helpful because they'll know you, the local conditions where you're riding, and how our kites pull relative to each other and relative to many other designs on the market. This is just one of the many reasons why we support brick and mortar and always recommend that you shop local.

As far as not providing the AR and projected area... In my opinion providing the projected area is useless. There is so much more going on with kite design that affects the power of a kite than the surface area or projected area. For example, the 2013 Evo pulled like a truck. Way more powerful than the 2013 Rebel. All pre-2014 Evos pulled way harder than Rebels, and it was most true in 2013. Probably 1.5-2sqm more power in the Evo per same size Rebel. Yet if you compare the projected areas, a 2013 Evo 12m was 6.9 sqm, while the 2013 Rebel 12m was 7.5. In fact, the Rebel itself lost some power from 2012 to 2013, but the surface area and projected area remained the same.

Same thing with aspect ratio... The Rebel and Fuse always had identical aspect ratios, but the Fuse flew like a higher aspect ratio kite. The Rebel 2012 and 2013 also had identical aspect ratios but flew significantly differently.

I agree that these numbers can be tools, and I'll try to get the information for 2014 kites and post it here, but I think that generally it can be more misleading than helpful in many cases... A small change in entry profile or bridling can affect power far more than projected area, and they can also affect where the kite sits in the window/speed through the window/drift far more than AR. Plus, unlike AR and projected area, they're almost impossible to see by just plain looking at the kite.

As I said earlier, the best thing I can recommend is getting to know your retailer. If there's no NKB retailer in your area, you can always call one up. Spending 5 minutes on the phone with a knowledgeable retailer will get you WAY more information than looking at numbers on a screen or in a book. Hopefully they can set you up with a demo so you can see for yourself. Or talk to people on the beach. Or, as always, feel free to PM me with particular questions. I have a pretty good grasp of how our kites fly and I'm always happy to share that information.

I'll still try to get those numbers for those of you who really want it. Assuming I can do so, it may take a couple days so please be patient.

-Dan


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