Strutless kite RRD

[pmaggie]

Strutless kites are for sure something everyone must test before condemning, in my case I never flow one so can't say anything about them. There are anyway, IMO, commercial reasons behind the fact that quite all the major brands are following this path: the "new" effect.
Reason are both on the buyer and the producer side.
Buyer side: let's consider the average joe kiter (like me). He is not so expert or passionate to buy a new kite every time a new model appears. The stuff he owns is ok for him until it suffers from wear and tear. Maybe he follows the forum and enjoy the gear tests but this does not mean he is going to substitute his "old" kite as soon as he reads about the model year XXXX. Things change when something completely new appears: in this case, our "normal" kiter will for sure be much more interested because he thinks he's not only replacing his old kite with a similar one but he's going to switch to something really new and advanced. It's the sensation people have, e.g., buying the latest smartphone: 90% they don't need it but they like to "own the future".
Brand side: when something really new appears, here it comes the fear to "lose the train", to discover too late that the idea was good and profitable or to be considered underdeveloped in comparison with the competitors.

[ronnie]

Strutless is not a revolution, its just a kite with different characteristics.

It will gain in some areas and lose in others. If you like what it gains more than what it loses then its going to suit you, if not it wont.

Not all strutless kites are the same, so what goes for one does not go for another.

[tautologies]

Strutless is not a revolution, its just a kite with different characteristics.

It will gain in some areas and lose in others. If you like what it gains more than what it loses then its going to suit you, if not it wont.

Not all strutless kites are the same, so what goes for one does not go for another.

IMO they are here to stay, simply because of the simplicity (when its done right).

Thx Ronnie, I wish people could be more like this overall..and perhaps especially in kiting. It is all about trade offs. Great kites have less negative trade offs, but they are all design choices that have consequences for a variety of characteristics.

Realizing that something works for some and not as much for others. I know what I like and what I am looking for in a kite.

[ronnie]

Strutless is not a revolution, its just a kite with different characteristics.

It will gain in some areas and lose in others. If you like what it gains more than what it loses then its going to suit you, if not it wont.

Not all strutless kites are the same, so what goes for one does not go for another.

IMO they are here to stay, simply because of the simplicity (when its done right).

Thx Ronnie, I wish people could be more like this overall..and perhaps especially in kiting. It is all about trade offs. Great kites have less negative trade offs, but they are all design choices that have consequences for a variety of characteristics.

Realizing that something works for some and not as much for others. I know what I like and what I am looking for in a kite.

When someone comes up with something like a C-Quad that is practical - that will be a revolution.

[tautologies]

Well I'm thinking revolution is in the eye of the beholder. Whenever you find the kite that you love and dig you will feel it is a revolution. To me no strut and low strut kites have been more of a revolution than the first flat kites I tried.

[eree]

i bet rrd didn't make bigger sizes because they couldn't manage heavy fluttering and impossible waterlaunch...

[tautologies]

i bet rrd didn't make bigger sizes because they couldn't manage heavy fluttering and impossible waterlaunch...

...from a guy who has neither seen nor tried one. There is a virtual ton of proof of exactly the opposite of what you are saying.

Next thing I bet you argue gravity is a hoax and the wireless router rays will harm you.

[BWD]

i bet rrd didn't make bigger sizes because they couldn't manage heavy fluttering and impossible waterlaunch...

it's a lot more likely that their LE and canopy shaping strategies didn't scale easily to 15m+.
Look at what the rrd and the trip have in common, contrast against the cloud and airush zero:
AR and canopy shape, LE size, bridle configuration tell the story.

By the way, if your kite is flapping, sheet in.
If you are a flyweight you don't need a 17 anyway (over 10 knots).
Or to put it another way, grow a pair or rig down to the appropriate size kite.
Riding all the time with a sheeted out kite is like riding the clutch in a car, it doesn't smell right after a while, struts or no struts!

The water launch is easy by the way and can be seen in videos from a year ago.
True it is possible to screw it up, but ...some people can screw anything up.

[ronnie]

Tiny video of the 17m RRD strutless kite.

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=67 ... =2&theater

[ronnie]

Well Tom, maybe nobody would like that.
But the Cloud is not like that in my opinion.
Since you bring it up, with the Cloud, it's more like this:
The first 6 inches of bar throw give you more depower than you get from most kites by moving the bar that amount, and little or no luffing/flapping.
Keep sheeting out and the luffing starts, and so does the drift.
Sheet out too much, maybe a foot and a half (like if you take the kite out in too much wind for the first time) and the canopy luffs a lot and makes noise.
Give it a try before condemning it.

The RRD emotion kite looks nice to me.
If Aummm hates it, it can't be all bad!
It is higher AR, but looks like it keeps stability by having more "bow" traits, smaller tips but maybe more coning. It would be nice to see a better video showing it reacting to more sheeting and maneuvers. It seems like strutless is still not the way to go for kiteloops, there is just not enough inertia to keep the tip rotating and finish the loop fast, or so it seems from the video.

Would have to see the same size in the same wind to compare properly with the RRD, but I think this is the 8m Cloud C1 being looped by Ryan Toaspern.
Seems to reinforce that, like strutted kites, strutless kites can come with a range of characteristics.