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Pea Island "OBX" (closed for Kiteboarding)

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Re: Pea Island "OBX" (closed for Kiteboarding)

Postby randycasburn » Mon May 12, 2014 3:18 pm

RichardM wrote:Another is to fight the regs and/or tickets in court (which is NOT necessarily beyond the ability of average kiters).
May I offer that this may be beyond the average kiter's financial ability ( attorney's fees for a court case) and time commitment ability. Given that most kiters have those other activities that require time too ( a job ).
RichardM wrote: I got a ticket for sleeping in a car, I got the ordinance thrown out ...
California is one of the most highly kiting regulated areas anywhere (LA area in a big way). Can you share your personal experiences challenging kiting specific restrictions/regulations in your local (LA) area so that folks in NC can benefit from your experience in that regard (more directly related to the thread)?

You advocate organized kiters. Are you a member of the SCKA and do you think they are a benefit in regards to fighting regulation in California? ( I'm thinking "not so much" based upon the huge amount of regulation there).

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Re: Pea Island "OBX" (closed for Kiteboarding)

Postby SSK » Mon May 12, 2014 3:57 pm

Dimitri,
Wow, this has been in effect longer than I thought. Clearly it was up on their site as of 2010, but there is a quote that it was as early as 2009. It was not until 2013 that I remember anyone actually getting a warning. Check out the dates in this thread.

http://new.ikitesurf.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=15923
So it may be a social myth, started here, but there is the reference to someone taking out the power lines.

That sign was up at the Ferry signs and taken in summer of 2013 that was when that photo was taken. Sandy or some other storm or dune reconstruction may have taken it out. May not be there anymore. Have to check out what is still there. But most people driving 60 miles an hour cannot read it anyways. The sign at the North end of town is even smaller, but for sure that is there. My point was that this has been posted for a long time. Enforcement may be a different story.

We talked with the Ranger last year after getting warned, and they were not certain either. At that time, the ranger we spoke to said that as long as you did not launch or land you were OK. So we asked if we did a sound side downwinder to new inlet and landed the kites in the water (which we do anyways) if that would be OK. He said no. He said if you went launched before the refuge and then went passed it and landed either in town or North of the Inlet you would be OK (although exhausted). Although that was his interpretation, some other person may interpret it different. The signs state launch and land, but the website says not kiteboarding in the refuge which includes most of the slicks.

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Re: Pea Island "OBX" (closed for Kiteboarding)

Postby Zepheros » Mon May 12, 2014 5:42 pm

Richard, thank you for analysis. It is an excellent road map to follow for folks in similar circumstances and perhaps more importantly it helps the average kiter understand that they have rights and they also have practical ways enforce their rights. This is valuable information that folks can apply to other encounters with authority outside of kiting.

If I remember correctly from reading this forum, years ago you had volunteered your expertise and experience to a group of kiters outside of your area. If that is correct you deserve cudos and respect.

Your efforts on this forum are appreciated.

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Re: Pea Island "OBX" (closed for Kiteboarding)

Postby BWD » Mon May 12, 2014 5:53 pm

The officer showed up at my house on April 30th asking my wife were I was. So when I got back to the USA on May 7th, I called the officer to see what was the problem. And on May 9th they came back to my house to talk about PEA ISLAND, and showed me some of the YOUTUBE videos of me kiting on Pea Island (ocean & sound). So the 2 officers decided to make an example out of me by giving me this citation, and asked me to let all the kiters know about this, which I did. And in case you did not know, one of the officers is also a kiter, which made his work even harder but had to do it so he doesn't get in trouble with his work.
I also asked the officer what about SURFING on Pea Island!!!! His response was that it was not allowed either, but was under the radar like Kiteboarding was until some one decided to land his kite on the power lines.
So in few words, people need to know what kiters are up against. But again you have a lot of loop holes. For example, you can lunch North of Oregon inlet and do a down winder and come out in Rodanthe. This is one of the many loop holes, and that is the reason I did not want to engage the officer more then I needed to.
So if you want to win a war you need to be smart and choose your battles. :thumb:
Bad officer, bad!

Targeting DM based on videos?
Bad!
Going way out of their refuge to bother his wife?
Bad!
Making an example of DM?
Bad!
Enforcing reg's on kiters but not surfers?
BAD! Violation of Constitution, 14th amendment, targeting.prosecuting individual based on his membership in one class.
Why is it always the feds that want to violate the constitutional rights supposed to be federally guaranteed?

Plus from DM's description it seems the citation was not issued at Pea Island, and was not issued for a violation on the date of the citation!
Should some officers be fired for that? I thought government documents were supposed to represent the truth!
Maybe if this warning citation is false it should be documented so next time anyone gets a ticket from bird police, rat police, snake police it can be contested, demonstrating the officers have a track record of falsifying citations to attempt to coerce and manipulate the public, while selectively and capriciously enforcing regulations contrary to US law.
So much of this these days, more and more regulations, unequally applied, US is going downhill.

And for SSK, your take doesn't make sense to me.
Anyone can look up these regulations and such crap on a .gov site, that is not really the point.
The point is in this situation, if that's what the law thinks, the law is an ass!

But like Dimitri says, choose your battles....

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Re: Pea Island "OBX" (closed for Kiteboarding)

Postby Bille » Mon May 12, 2014 7:08 pm

This thread kinda proves one thing "For Sure" :

Unless ALL the kite-boarders in the USA, band together in a club of
some type, Kite boarding in the USA will not be around for much more
than another 5 to10-years.

People that fly hang gliders, and people that fly Paragliders ; they kinda
hate each other. But we made a nation-wide club , so we would have the
political "Pull" to make a difference. And it Works ! If any of our flying sites
come under scrutiny, then we got layers ready and able to defend us. As
a result, we still got places to fly ; a Lot of them. The club is called the "USHPA"
and it cost about $ 100 a year to join. If you screw-up and get kicked out
of the club, then you can't fly Any of our sites. The club is Non-profit, and Not
owned by anybody except All the members, complete with a million $ worth
of insurance coverage.

http://www.ushpa.aero/

Another club i belong to is the AMA, (Academy of Model Aeronautics), it's
set up much the same as the USHPA. Legal representation ready and able
to fight for our concerns, and a million $ worth of insurance coverage.

http://www.modelaircraft.org/



SO -- can you imagine Windsurfers and kite-boarding , getting together
to have a bigger voice in government ?
NO, is what most of Ya think , (because Ya Hate those gay bastards) ; but unless
we do exactly that, then kite boarding in the USA is Dead , and i Ain't going to mexico to
get my Fix, when i can go jump off a mountain and fly,


And a Last note to consider ; how many of you could still legally own Guns right
now, if it weren't for the NRA ? -------------------------------that would be NONE of Ya !!
WHY ?
Because if you try to get elected to a public position in the USA, and your
"For" gun control ; Ya probably ain't gonna make it to office. The NRA has
a LOT of power !!

Bille

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Re: Pea Island "OBX" (closed for Kiteboarding)

Postby RichardM » Mon May 12, 2014 7:12 pm

.
randycasburn wrote:
RichardM wrote:Another is to fight the regs and/or tickets in court (which is NOT necessarily beyond the ability of average kiters).
May I offer that this may be beyond the average kiter's financial ability ( attorney's fees for a court case) and time commitment ability. Given that most kiters have those other activities that require time too ( a job ).
RichardM wrote: I got a ticket for sleeping in a car, I got the ordinance thrown out ...
California is one of the most highly kiting regulated areas anywhere (LA area in a big way). Can you share your personal experiences challenging kiting specific restrictions/regulations in your local (LA) area so that folks in NC can benefit from your experience in that regard (more directly related to the thread)?

You advocate organized kiters. Are you a member of the SCKA and do you think they are a benefit in regards to fighting regulation in California? ( I'm thinking "not so much" based upon the huge amount of regulation there).
As I pointed out, it is NOT necessary to actually WIN a case, or even get it dismissed cause the Cop/Ranger doesn’t show. Simply having enough kiters fight it gums up the works. Besides causing the Rangers a LOT more WORK, the local District court won’t be happy dealing with aggrieved kiters - especially over some BLATANTLY bogus reg. It isn’t necessary to pay a crook - er - “lawyer” to create the above effect. Regrettably, you’re correct about the time involved ( preparation can be very time consuming if done reasonably thoroughly). Check to see if there are night or wkend hrs for citations.

Since I started, access in this area’s been reduced by about 75%. Every time I raised the issue on the worthless local iKitesurf forum about taking a hardball approach to the various local authorities, I got flamed to toast by LOCAL kiters who squeaked and squealed about how only “self-policing” could “preserve” access - with NO support from virtually 99% of the other kiters. Their supposed “argument was that only conciliatory asslicking would work and my approach would antagonize our masters who would retaliate by denying ALL access. Coincidentally, the loudest squeakers tended to be those who were CONNECTED in some way to the local authorities and to whose kiting activities the authorities were more likely to turn a blind eye. It was, and always has been, my contention that many, if not most, of the time, “self-policing” is mostly a SMOKESCREEN that locals use in order to shortsightedly LIMIT access for their own benefit.

My experience is that the SCKA was one of the LOUDEST squealers.

Although I am influenced comparatively little by OTHER kiters’ opinions etc., I am not going to put forth the effort to fight bans/restrictions (which I am able to more or less work around) with LESS than NO support from other kiters.

It might be noted that kiting in southern CA is DYING with LESS kiters now than years ago and kite businesses going bellyup.
SSK wrote:Dimitri, there is so much wrong information posted on that facebook page. Again, it has been posted and in effect since at least Spring of 2013. It has been on the webpage since that time. 1.This sign at the North end of the Refuge went up in 2013 along with the other on the South end. I am pretty sure that says launching and landing in the refuge is forbidden. 2. I am pretty sure they can limit activities in the refuge. Take your jet ski to new inlet and see if you can fight that. Sure I hate this rule, and I am not a lawyer. But all these people saying they cannot do it, it is not written, and 3. it is not enforceable I am guessing are wrong. I do agree that 4. the rangers do not want to enforce it or that you can Ninja your way around it (I did not confirm or deny that my vehicle has no kite stickers, coolers to stash all kite gear, a gratuitous boogie board and surf fishing rod). Also this is a refuge it is not NPS. The refuge has different goals and objectives and different administration. People are confusing the two. The refuge was built 5. initially to encourage water fowl, for increased hunting opportunities on the island. Back then that was the big tourism to OBX.
Image
1.This sign The sign is NOT the LAW. As I pointed out, the reg does NOT prohibit “launching/landing” and believe it or not, a reasonably STRONG argument can be made that “kiteboarding” is only prohibited IF done IN COMBINATION with personal watercraft use (compare #8 with #3). An almost SURE way to tell a reg is ILLEGAL is where you see instructions to ASK THE AUTHORITY about it. They can SAY ANYTHING but to be LEGAL it MUST be in WRITING somewhere.

2. I am pretty sure they can limit activities in the refuge. You are correct but it MUST be done in certain ways and ONLY to accomplish SPECIFIC goals.

3. it is not enforceable I am guessing are wrong. The ONLY way to know for sure is to FIGHT enforcement. Likely the MAIN reason they tend to give “warnings” rather than “citations” is that they KNOW the supposed reg is ILLEGAL and DON’T want it challenged in court. If they thought they could accomplish the same thing AND get MONEY through fines, there wouldn’t be “warnings”.

4. the rangers do not want to enforce it See #3.

5. initially to encourage... This is irrelevant - what matters is the CURRENT goals.
Zepheros wrote:Richard, thank you for analysis. It is an excellent road map to follow for folks in similar circumstances and perhaps more importantly it helps the average kiter understand that they have rights and they also have practical ways enforce their rights. This is valuable information that folks can apply to other encounters with authority outside of kiting.

If I remember correctly from reading this forum, years ago you had volunteered your expertise and experience to a group of kiters outside of your area. If that is correct you deserve cudos and respect.

Your efforts on this forum are appreciated.
Thank you Zepheros.

I have occasionally offered to help with access issues and each time been told by the locals involved to mind my own business - see my above comments regarding “self-policing”.

Richard M.
Malibu Kitesurfing - since 2002
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Re: Pea Island "OBX" (closed for Kiteboarding)

Postby Bille » Mon May 12, 2014 7:20 pm

Bille wrote:@ Richard
Why so cynical ? I Don't get it ! And that's coming from
someone that actually kinda sorta Likes Ya -------------sometimes.

Bille
WHY did i say that ?
Because were gonna NEED people like Richard ; if Ya wanna
keep kite-boarding for the next 20 years !!

Still though, i think he comes off a bit on the cynical side ; and it's
a major turn-Off when reading his stuff , so his voice doesn't get
through to most people.

Bille
Last edited by Bille on Mon May 12, 2014 9:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Pea Island "OBX" (closed for Kiteboarding)

Postby toyletbowl » Mon May 12, 2014 8:44 pm

I think the interpretation Dimitri states is true. I also heard and understand from someone who owns a Jet ski rental operation that you can ride on the water, but cannot launch or land. We rode Pea Island on an east wind day and rode a long ways next to the island and were easy to spot for hours and no-one came out to bug us. Launched at the northern most grassy spot on Mirlo where the cool house with the light house burned down.

We did see someone in a truck getting a ticket sound side next to the new temp bridge. Could not tell if they were join gout or coming in, but probably going to launch there is my guess.

Bob
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Re: Pea Island "OBX" (closed for Kiteboarding)

Postby randycasburn » Mon May 12, 2014 11:46 pm

RichardM wrote:... I am not going to put forth the effort to fight bans/restrictions...
So your personal position on this entire issue is "Do as I say...not as I do" then. Thanks for the clarity.

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Re: Pea Island "OBX" (closed for Kiteboarding)

Postby RichardM » Tue May 13, 2014 12:28 am

randycasburn wrote:
RichardM wrote:... I am not going to put forth the effort to fight bans/restrictions...
So your personal position on this entire issue is "Do as I say...not as I do" then. Thanks for the clarity.
I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and conclude that your being new to the forum, rather than pure stupidity, is why you think that taking my statements out of context actually might influence the other readers of this thread. But you should be aware that I, and others, instantly recognize such lowlife techniques and it adversely affects YOUR credibility much more than that of the people you attack.

I suggest that in the future when you quote someone, you include the entire portion of their post which is pertinent to the part you want to discuss.

Furthermore, where did you see that I received either a "warning" or a "citation" which I should have fought ?

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