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 Post subject: Re: North Juice 18m VS Dyno 17m best light wind airtime?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 24, 2014 12:51 pm 
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Naiad draft is a contender for sure. But I have spoken at length with puetz who I trust implicitly regarding large kite and he said

Slightly longer: The faster I got with it, the heavier the bar got. I don't mind a heavy bar but after 10 minutes or so racing around you get tired of pulling the bar in but if you relax, power disappears. For example, on my kites if you wanna relax, let the bar rest on the stopper but be prepared for a little less pull, but the Draft looses most of the power, causing you to come off the plane. Not only do you loose power but steering is heavier and delayed. Is this a bow kite thing??? I figure you got to ride around with speed all the time with this thing but if the wind drops a little every thing gets slow and heavy. I think they tried to make it feel direct steering but ended up making it really too heavy (relative to other kites I have tried) almost circa 2007 or 2008 bow kites. Bridles make the kite feel soft and delayed or spongy you could call it. So for me its way too much bow kite style. There is one stand out performance though, and that is it wanted to jump well and has good hang. Having said that, 10 minutes of jumping around and you need a rest.

I'd like to add ....
Plus big height is not the be all and end all re airstyle. That's what most don't get. Shit I used to get some stupid height and hangtime on the edge. Just stupid height and hangtime sometimes .

Re the latest dynos. Well all I can say is I rode the latest Dyno (before this new incarnation, I've given up trying to use years) and it was terrible on a TT but puetz loves it on a SB.

They reckon the new draft has less bar pressure. We will see.


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 Post subject: Re: North Juice 18m VS Dyno 17m best light wind airtime?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 24, 2014 1:43 pm 
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Second that on the Draft - heavy bar pressure. Couldn't ride and keep power one-handed without serious hard work... two hands on the bar all the time. That was a year or so ago though...


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 Post subject: Re: North Juice 18m VS Dyno 17m best light wind airtime?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 24, 2014 1:52 pm 
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Westozzy, when you say: "Well all I can say is I rode the latest Dyno (before this new incarnation, I've given up trying to use years) and it was terrible on a TT"
What do you actually mean??


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 Post subject: Re: North Juice 18m VS Dyno 17m best light wind airtime?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 24, 2014 2:24 pm 
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mr moon wrote:
Westozzy, when you say: "Well all I can say is I rode the latest Dyno (before this new incarnation, I've given up trying to use years) and it was terrible on a TT"
What do you actually mean??



I seen this too, I thought it was some west ozzy slang.... or to much piss.... lol


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 Post subject: Re: North Juice 18m VS Dyno 17m best light wind airtime?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 24, 2014 4:03 pm 
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I find the Draft to have quite some bar pressure too. But you always know where the kite is and it has super direct steering. Its not an untamed monster, it is only a bit more rough, not made for someone with weak arms or soemeone who prefers little bar pressure. Its a wild thing, the real deal :-)
But by far not unbearable, it is still possible to kite comfortably if you set the depower right and use the stopper a bit.

However there is a possible solution to that:

1st dont be a pussy and just get some muscles ;-)
2nd (probably better) use the stopper if you dont have the power
3rd (maybe best) adjust the bridles to get less bar pressure. (probably the best) See attachement!

And isnt the 17 m2 more like a 17,5 m2?

We will see if the 2015 Drafts have less bar pressure.

But so far I find the Drafts super easy to jump, easy to fly, easy to land and very easy to control.

And I have no issue suffering a bit bar pressure for that insane and infu..ingcredible habgtime and lift :-)

It is 20% better than any kite on the market I have seen so far :-)

For me it is the perfect Airstyle Kite for now and in Snow it is simply a blast.

I love the Drafts and will experiment a bit with the bar pressure by shortening the back bridles etc. and a DIY LWR (Light Wind Relaunch).

I am also curious how it flies with a North Bar 2012 - have only flown it with the Naish Bar so far.
And I will also try line extensions from 3-8m and see what that does.

Lots of testing in Djerba soon.


Attachments:
NKB_Fuse_PigtailInstruction.pdf [89.14 KIB]
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 Post subject: Re: North Juice 18m VS Dyno 17m best light wind airtime?
PostPosted: Wed Jun 25, 2014 12:24 am 
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Mac, the guy who wrote the feedback I posted is 120kg and no wimp I can assure you. Also a veteran of 12 years or so kiting in a place that always has light wind. Big kites is ALL they use.

Notice he says the bar pressure also increases as the wind increases, a function I have found with most static bridle kites. One thing I can say about the dyno (all years) the bar pressure stays the same if anything in the 2013 model it gets lighter.

You talk about bar feedback, the dyno 2011 has plenty on the hard setting, you don't or wouldn't need any more. It's just right in my opinion.

When you say airstyle what do you mean? How far have you pushed your tricks?

I have no doubt it jumps huge though and Im stoked you dig your kite. I will endeavour to get on the latest draft this year to give a more informed opinion.

2013/2014 dyno (the one before the new one just released), both my brother and I rode them back to back with the dyno 2011 plus a zephyr chucked into the mix. Didn't like it all for airstyle, dogstyle and all that jazz. Too sensitive on the depower, not enough feedback at the bar, needs like the edge speed kept in the wing to jump etc ect, ....its a race kite, need i say more.


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 Post subject: Re: North Juice 18m VS Dyno 17m best light wind airtime?
PostPosted: Wed Jun 25, 2014 9:33 am 
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Hey westozzy and kamikuza!

No wimps out there as far as I am concerned, if you only kite all is good :-)

I am 92 kg and depending on party habits and business dinners (and how often I get to burn some calories while doing sports) 80-85kg during summer/fall.

You are not wrong with your statements about the Drafts.
But if you focus on a kite and try to get the best out of it, you are sometimes able to use it to deliver the best it offers?

I would of course prefer to have lower bar pressure on the Drafts, but I want to avoid to always buy the new models, as I would like to get used to one years kites (2013) and only change them every 3-5 years - something I think is important in Airstyle (where you need precision).

I am not a good Airstyler yet, I am slowly getting there. But its fun!
At the moment I enjoy high jumps (sometimes thats the best, doesnt need anything more :-) ), grabs, hooked raileys, table tops.

I am working on rotations and hope this year I will manage some perfect boardoffs and thinks like passes and flips.

Back to the Draft, here is a list of things I want to try to reduce the bar pressure a bit:

- Fly it with the North 2012 bar on wide settings
- And therefore use lines between 27m and 32m to slow steering down to suit Airstyle tricks
- Use the Fuse knot on the back bridles to reduce bar power
- Loose some weight (10-12kg) again

I will report on results, but I am positive I will be able to bring bar pressure down.
If not I might buy the 2015 Drafts (if they offer much lower bar pressure).

But until now I actually see no reason for that, as I have no issues with the higher bar pressure so far!


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 Post subject: Re: North Juice 18m VS Dyno 17m best light wind airtime?
PostPosted: Wed Jun 25, 2014 10:38 am 
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Fair enough mac, enjoy going big!! Will have a draft to demo here in a month or two will let ya know. Flying through the air is what it is all about!!


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 Post subject: Re: North Juice 18m VS Dyno 17m best light wind airtime?
PostPosted: Wed Jun 25, 2014 11:11 am 
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No worries!

I only had the one session on the 17 and while it was probably better upwind in the light stuff than my Flite, the bar pressure was killer and I say that coming from a 2010 16m Crossbow...

The problem was holding the power in the kite when sheeted in... trim for comfort and then it was gutless.

My interest in trying it out was just to try it out :D


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 Post subject: Re: North Juice 18m VS Dyno 17m best light wind airtime?
PostPosted: Wed Jun 25, 2014 11:57 am 
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I rode the 17m Draft in Podersdorf/Neusiedler See last Friday, wind was about 8-13 knots, then picked up to 18, max 20 knots.

The Draft took me on high and long flights, so that I could see to the end of the lake (you need to be 9,5m over the water to see from one end to the other - due to the earth surface curve), so I assume I was higher than ever before (I have a few vids from last year with a core kite where I am 7-8m high) and to be honest it was really effortless, didnt need to edge to hard or send the kite to hard, it was just like in auto pilot (Of course for the huge jumps I edged and sent harder :-) ). No issues with steering in the air, and super soft landings. And I even used a Flysurfer Door L (more fun in gusty winds that die sometimes)!

I would say even a beginner could manage to jump a few meters with a Draft without knowing to much about jumping - just sheet in and off you go in Autopilot Mode.

I will have the chance to figure out how Drafts are for beginners, my sister starts kiting with them in end of July. I guess with the LWR Light Wind relaunch she shouldnt have to many issues with bar pressure if set to outside settings of the naish bar and she only weighs 55 kilos.

And as it offers a lot of grunt and linear steering it should work fine.


The one thing kamikuza mentioned that it doesnt have any grunt or gut when you sheet it out to a more comfortable position (not sheeted in, but about half way) I solved by adjusting the depower trim, so that the kite has grunt already when half sheeted in. That is also nice when you jump - feels like a rocket pulling you up :-)

Westozzy, I am very curious on your test results from the Drafts 2015!


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