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 Post subject: Re: Chicken Loop Bye Bye?
PostPosted: Mon Jul 14, 2014 5:35 pm 
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Joined: Wed Aug 03, 2005 10:22 am
Posts: 52
Location: Gran Canaria, Spain
Quote:
what dont you understand...your steel ring is a hard eye. It will wear a groove in the shackle and not release even when open.


FlyingWeasel:
Some years ago I rigged my winterkite with a SS ring and a Wichard shackle. Logged numerous hours on this kite, used it on the water also, and never experienced the wear problem you are refering to. I guess you have to make sure the tubing diameter of your SS ring is sufficient to avoid excessive point load. Wear on the Wichard will also be a function of the hardness difference between the ring and the Wichard.

Ole Lie
M Eng ;-)


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 Post subject: Re: Chicken Loop Bye Bye?
PostPosted: Mon Jul 14, 2014 9:31 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jun 05, 2007 2:00 am
Posts: 464
Salmon slayer...the start point is identifying the problem/issue, problems/issues at the root. In this case it is one step past not kiting and not addressing an issue within an issue.The quick release shackles as produced by Wichard/Gibb etc has been tried tested and found wanting in comparison with other release mechanisms. If you want to create an octagonal piston and sell it to the automotive industry as the best thing since sliced bread go ahead. This is not creating anything new but a botch job for an unrelated problem

Ole lie. As a M. Engineer that you feel some need to point out perhaps to give credibility...well for a start, "Wichard" is a brand name. You and your "Steel ring" will no doubt have hardness issues as well as galvanic issues....heard you can get a degree these days online in 10 mins?? Some years ago...many had issues with stainless on stainless with the setup you show. It is on this site(with pictures)Are you Norwegian, I am in the nice city of Stavanger as I write this!!! I am not on holiday either, funnily enough some of my time will be spent sorting out the mess left by M Eng. And every other type of engineer under the sun that are lacking experience or havnt got a clue :wink:

If anyone else is in doubt as to the overall performance or suitability of a "pelican" type hook and release...you only have to look as far as every single life raft release on every commercial vessel/offshore instalation etc Not including revolving hooks on life boats.

There is a reason they have been selected.

you new wheel is not balanced.

In other examples there is a piece from a tack shop...cos you wont find someone able to jam that up with sand? Brass and seawater is not the greatest of mixes either. Bronze and more recently tungam are some of the metals of choice here.

On a final note...this is "bye bye chicken loop" not bye bye quick release/look at the shite I have put together
because I have too much time on my hands and am cheap.

Lol...chancers


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 Post subject: Re: Chicken Loop Bye Bye?
PostPosted: Mon Jul 14, 2014 10:27 pm 
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Joined: Wed Aug 03, 2005 10:22 am
Posts: 52
Location: Gran Canaria, Spain
Yes FlyingWeasel you got that right. I am norwegian but relocated to Gran Canaria 5 years ago for more consistent conditions. Right now I am actually in Norway also but on a drilling rig offshore. Anyway, thats besides the point.

I feel you are being very negative here now. This is supposedly a thread to improve on a design that currently has some issues. Main problem for me (well my wife actually as she is the one lacking gorilla arms) is that the release system on most bars take up to much length and limits the depower throw. It is always much easier to criticize than to suggest new ideas and many possible improvements have been killed by to many people saying they suck and "what we have is much better so shut up !". Personally I would prefer feedback that addresses your points of concern in a slightly less aggressive manner and perhaps keeping in mind the goal: Finding a better solution.

So lighten up a bit and see the suggestions for what they are: Namely a brainstorm discussion on possible solutions. I don't think anyone of the posters here are suggesting that their ideas are the best or even practical but if we can come up with a good selection of ideas and then give each other constructive feedback on the pros and cons of these we might get somewhere.

Aloha, peace & love from the north sea :-)


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 Post subject: Re: Chicken Loop Bye Bye?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 15, 2014 12:56 am 
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Posts: 464
Norwegian oily rag, a rig pig at that. I would have never guessed :roll: The solution
for you is easy....

A pelican type sleeved hook either on the harness bar (pull )or on the centre line through the bar .Centre line running through hook(push away), direct connection.
Have the welders fabricate it for you at workshop In 316 at the harness end and rod for the hook 3mm should be funky. Whats it going to cost you a Mars and a coke on a bad day. In there is a multitude of connection types with cordage to suit and hard connected.
With or without harness bar hook available? Well sure as shit if I was hard connected to a kite I would want the proven release mechanism/type(and an accessable knife)

Of course if you are wanting to add extra spice to your relationship go with option for rehashed
junk.

Have a safe trip and you can thank me later.

Here is some constructive criticism...stay away from rehashing proven
Unsuitable shite on the cheap when there is more suitable proven shite available. Actual cost is something better calculated over time.

Without a chicken loop the max distance saving is surely in the 10 to 20 cm range max at a guess and I can appreciate dwarf/mini kiters having issues etc. A third of those cm in many cases could be gained back by tightening the harness straps. If it is a waist harness well...

This thread is kook central


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 Post subject: Re: Chicken Loop Bye Bye?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 15, 2014 8:48 am 
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Posts: 357
flyingweasel wrote:
This thread is kook central


Yet you are still here.

I hope this conversation will continue.


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 Post subject: Re: Chicken Loop Bye Bye?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 15, 2014 11:03 am 
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Joined: Sun Jul 24, 2005 6:39 pm
Posts: 2909
Its obvious to me that kiting equipment hasn't reached the end of the line yet in terms of development.

For unhooking, it makes more sense to me to have a hook that quick releases than a chickenloop that releases.
None of the Q/R hooks on spreader bars so far developed are good enough IMO, but I'm sure a simple, effective design can be made.

We have mostly been looking at the non-unhooking type of equipment on this thread, but it could include what makes the optimum Q/R spreader bar hook and why it would be better than the current systems.


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 Post subject: Re: Chicken Loop Bye Bye?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 15, 2014 5:14 pm 
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Posts: 879
Thanks for the mention of one more activity that requires a "quick release"... that is Lifeboats and Liferafts. I did a quick search trying to figure out the "how and why", and it was quite enlightening... but unfortunately, not particularly valuable to our present endeavor, which is "how to replace the present kiteboard 'hook and loop' system, with an improved connection system.

It seems that there are quite a few inventions, presently being used and also, presently being developed to solve the problems inherent with the "connect and disconnect" of Lifeboats. It reminds me of the problems encountered as the activity of kiteboarding has developed. Here are some pictures of the devices being used and being proposed for use to connect and disconnect Lifeboats. Maybe some of the basic mechanisms seen here could be applied to our project. As you can see, some of the mechanisms basic principles are already incorporated into kiteboard equipment. The goal of all of these inventions is the same: "to quickly, conveniently and efficiently release a heavy load, by using a very reliable and slight force as the 'key'".

The "Stenhouse Slip" design looks quite ancient and illustrates the "KISS" principle of simplicity.


Attachments:
chain,lever and slip ring.jpg
chain,lever and slip ring.jpg [ 38.48 KIB | Viewed 271 times ]
liferaft cradle quick release strap.jpg
liferaft cradle quick release strap.jpg [ 11.82 KIB | Viewed 271 times ]
Safelaunch.jpg
Safelaunch.jpg [ 29.74 KIB | Viewed 271 times ]
stainless-steel-liferaft-senhouse-slip-hook-150mm-biggest.jpg
stainless-steel-liferaft-senhouse-slip-hook-150mm-biggest.jpg [ 19.71 KIB | Viewed 271 times ]
Screen shot 2014-07-15 at 8.10.56 AM.png
Screen shot 2014-07-15 at 8.10.56 AM.png [ 125.43 KIB | Viewed 271 times ]
Screen shot 2014-07-14 at 6.26.26 PM.png
Screen shot 2014-07-14 at 6.26.26 PM.png [ 55.97 KIB | Viewed 271 times ]
slip_stenhouse.jpg
slip_stenhouse.jpg [ 12.81 KIB | Viewed 271 times ]
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 Post subject: Re: Chicken Loop Bye Bye?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 15, 2014 6:57 pm 
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Posts: 404
^^ 3rd pic up above looks like a still from a car crash slow mo right before the dude puts his head through the windscreen. Can't believe i've read the entire thread, something mesmorising about the kookiness. Fuck me i need a better job!


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 Post subject: Re: Chicken Loop Bye Bye?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 16, 2014 4:39 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jan 10, 2004 11:53 pm
Posts: 879
Thanks for mentioning the car accident... reminds me of the "airbag"... which in a way could be thought of as the ultimate "quick release" as it releases the compressed air very quickly and reliably, all as a result of good engineering which was refined over the years... all the result of some "kooks" initial idea of using a balloon to solve the problem of people going through windshields or getting impalled on steering wheel columns.

It might be time to summarize what we have so far, as the leading contenders for a mechanism of the device that we hope to create. I will post some pictures of what I think of as the best designs, so far, in the brief history of kiting.

Flyingweasel mentioned that over 10 years ago the RRD Z types bar system had something similar to what we are hoping to design. If anyone has a picture of this device, PLEASE post it for our "historical" record of kiteboard release devices. I don't remember any kite manufacturer offering a bar system with a "shackle". Was it offered for use with a "kite buggy"? I remember the RRD Z type "C" kites as being good kites for experts only, and remember RRD as being a "innovator" with their clever use of the fifth line, starting in about 2005...but at that time they had a chicken loop. Can someone clarify this?


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 Post subject: Re: Chicken Loop Bye Bye?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 16, 2014 5:08 pm 
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Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2012 12:36 pm
Posts: 404
tomatkins wrote:
Thanks for mentioning the car accident...


You're welcome, glad to be of service :D


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