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 Post subject: Re: The end to death spirals and drownings?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2014 5:21 am 
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May have been a bit harsh with my wording so sorry for that - at least you brought it up - but if someone wants to do something realistic and effective right now to contribute towards what is being discussed here look to the other points made here - not just by myself, they will have a much better outcome.

You know what, it is scary for anyone in those kind of situations.

Educating that bridle tangle death loops are less likely with a hard pumped up kite..

I been rolled in my lines a few times in heavy waves and can tell you the most dangerous situation is light/ moderate crossshore winds with massive swells where when you drop your kite you are pushed towards your lines without the chance to swim out of the impact zone very easily due to rip and wind directions.

As for kiteloops been there too kitelooped in 35+ knots in maui and ended up in my lines - - nice to know which one is your 5th line (bright yellow) at that stage.

Short of what i have mentioned a knife may offer something but this way down the list of priorities because in real situations unless it is right on your chest, the real situation is far from what we may think sitting on dry land. - then there is the quick release harness.

Stuck by the ankle in lines while kite deathloops- has happened to a friend nearly drowned - he had no way out - he ended up in windshadow that saved him - would have been worse with today fast looping kites. Has happened to others too, possibly people drowned from this. Carry on with your idea and when you have a feasible design let us know, we choose to ride kites with 120 ft of line potentially wrapping us up.

That's my experience.

I will tell you what I reckon you should do in your scenario.

Work super fast to get lines off before it powers up and swim downwind to keep some slack if kite is hovering ready to take off - same goes for 2 kiters tangled - one can help the other by swimming down wind to give the other slack.

Truth in what toby says too - 10 years ago kites could barely make it around into a kiteloop - hit teh water first, today mostly only big kites are slower today - getting dragged by a deathloop by your ankle and dragged by a powered up kite are two vastly different things.

if i was stuck and there was a lucky lull I would hope for

1st a 5th line to pull on to depower kite more effectivly than anything else - i would nt hang about u gotta get a few meters in before power up real quick.. safeties and releases are useless at this stage... even then that might be tangled above where you can get to it which would suck

fail .?? then i would try and grab a line to counter the loop if there was a lull

this is one of the reasons i ride 5th line but with 5th line comes other considerations.


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 Post subject: Re: The end to death spirals and drownings?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2014 9:09 am 
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Location: Como Lake - Italy
There are imo too many variables in the death loop scenario, it's quite impossible to avoid everything that could lead to the disaster. For sure the front leash attachment is a must for everyone who doesn't handle pass (99% of the riders in my home spot, including me). Helmet, but not only for death loops, it's a basic protection used in the majority of dangerous sports. Not cool? Your choice.
What I think is to be underlined is that we all often wait too much to release. Maybe we always think we are going to recover the situation, maybe becasue we are no so used to, maybe because after releasing there's a potential swim back situation, I don't know. What I actually have to notice every time I witness a potentially dangerous situation is that the rider normally releases only when he's desperate, that means too late. It's not impossible but quite rare that you can't release in the first 20/30 seconds from the beginning of the nightmare. I think at the classic bad crash: you hit the water, maybe you're not in the right position, you can't for the moment see where exactly your kite is and if the lines are ok. This is the moment to release, not the moment to check how things actually are. Just release, then check. Maybe you release for nothing but what's the problem? You're just going to loose 10 minutes to reassemble and get your board, that's all.


Last edited by pmaggie on Mon Jul 14, 2014 11:04 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: The end to death spirals and drownings?
PostPosted: Sat Jul 12, 2014 12:37 am 
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Several of you mention having your leash in front. I have done this but it made my leash too long, making it prone to wrapping around my QR and a body part. I fly North Rebels. Sounds like you do too. How have you succesfuly set this up?

PMaggie, you talk about releasing quicker. Not saying I disagree but should one "react faster than their kite"? meaning, could releasing too quickly be worse? For example, one time I was lit on my 9m and partially rode into my lines. I thought I had noticed a leg partially wrapped around a line so I freaked and pulled the QR. In retrospect, I thought about this and if my leg were wrapped around a line and my kite was not reacting yet, perhaps it would have been safer to sort it out before pulling the QR. Had my leg been wrapped around a line and I pulled the QR, the bar would have only gone as far as my foot and then the one outside line that I thought my leg was on could have powered up the kite on only one outside line creating a deadly situation. So....should we react faster than our kite until we know the score?

Lastly, my only point in this entire post is that WHEN OUR KITE STOPS SO DOES THE DANGER. If the QR fails or we get wrapped in lines, the only way to save yourself would be to stop the kite by detaching the kite from the flying lines.


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 Post subject: Re: The end to death spirals and drownings?
PostPosted: Sat Jul 12, 2014 1:00 am 
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Location: Ford Lake, Michigan
SpaceRacer wrote:
How have you succesfuly set this up?



Image

ozone short leash. Buy one then leash to the front.

pmaggie is 100% right. when there is danger and you are in a car, you can hit the brakes before you even identify if what was in the road is dangerous. Maybe it was just a paper bag. Or maybe it was a deer. QR should be the same. I'm sure you can construct a hypothetical where it might have been better not to throw the quick release. But the price you pay is every time you need to throw the QR you are using 2 or 3 seconds to use you brain to process the situation instead of the 1/4 second muscle memory requires.

The reason it takes kiters so incredibly long to throw the QR is that they don't practice it. Most kiters I know throw their quick release once every two or three years. That's not enough to retain a reflex action. You should practice the QR at least once every week you kite.


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 Post subject: Re: The end to death spirals and drownings?
PostPosted: Sat Jul 12, 2014 1:34 am 
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Quote:
You should practice the QR at least once every week you kite.


e.g. every time you land your kite.

1. you practice the QR
2. you will be safer not being attached to the kite immediately after someone grabbed your kite


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 Post subject: Re: The end to death spirals and drownings?
PostPosted: Sat Jul 12, 2014 5:51 am 
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edt, thanks for this but from experience, I don't know if I like just a pure rope leash. I guess it can depend on the kite but I've had ropy leashes wrap around QRs. Its why a lot of the leashes are stiff now. Someone can say that's what she said.


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 Post subject: Re: The end to death spirals and drownings?
PostPosted: Sat Jul 12, 2014 6:13 am 
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SpaceRacer wrote:
edt, thanks for this but from experience, I don't know if I like just a pure rope leash. I guess it can depend on the kite but I've had ropy leashes wrap around QRs. Its why a lot of the leashes are stiff now. Someone can say that's what she said.


there's other short leashes

Image

cabrinha short leash.

I mean if you enjoy leashing to the back don't let me stop you but if the leash length is the reason you have plenty of options.


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 Post subject: Re: The end to death spirals and drownings?
PostPosted: Sat Jul 12, 2014 3:53 pm 
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Core also has a short leash, comes standard with their bars.


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 Post subject: Re: The end to death spirals and drownings?
PostPosted: Sat Jul 12, 2014 5:11 pm 
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Image

Nice that there are so many short leashes available.


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 Post subject: Re: The end to death spirals and drownings?
PostPosted: Sat Jul 12, 2014 5:23 pm 
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edt i believe you put up the photo of the Sensor bar pro leash ( and not their short leash)

This is the Core page of the Sensor 2 bar and it shows their newer version of Core short 50cm leash
:thumb:
http://corekites.com/us/sensor2-bar

:pump: :surf: :sun:


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