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Once you go ..... you never go back??

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Jbrook
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Once you go ..... you never go back??

Postby Jbrook » Mon Jul 14, 2014 8:42 pm

So I have been riding a C kite for like 2 years. For some reason wanted to try a bridled kite again, this really isn't about brands more about design I guess so no reason to name the kites. So today I was out in strong wind a little gusty 25 knots and the bridled kite was flexing crazy it kinda scared me and since was a loaner put it down quick. This wind would be perfect for my 9 c kite. Kite was pumped super hard until the pump would not go down anymore. I tried to get the kite to settle but was just really flexing too much like it was a soft kite. I guess when you get use to the top end's of c-kites hard to go back to a bridled one? I guess for all fairness sake I need to to a 7mtr bridle kite to see whats up? Your thoughts?

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dyyylan
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Re: Once you go ..... you never go back??

Postby dyyylan » Mon Jul 14, 2014 10:03 pm

sounds like something was wrong with the kite, 25 knots is fine for a 9m

there isnt such a huge difference in bridled kites and c kites, i dont know why everyone makes such a big deal out of it

Jbrook
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Re: Once you go ..... you never go back??

Postby Jbrook » Mon Jul 14, 2014 10:37 pm

I put kite down checked bridals, checked to see if it was hard was all good. Top end of c-kites is way different than bridled kites you are wrong Dylan, I live in NE Brasil I ride alot have been here for 7 years. When I rode RRD Obsessions I had to get off 9mtr alot sooner than on Vegas 9mtr that I ride now. If you have nothing to add to the post why reply?

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Re: Once you go ..... you never go back??

Postby plummet » Mon Jul 14, 2014 11:13 pm

I don't think its fair to make a sweaping statement about all bridled kites from one short bad experience.

To give it a fair test you need more time and maybe try a few different kites. 9m sle in 25 knots should be easy peasy. Hell i've had my 13m edge cranking in 25 knots.

But you are right it is a different sensation.

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Re: Once you go ..... you never go back??

Postby igoryak » Mon Jul 14, 2014 11:22 pm

JBrook wtf is that attitude. You posted and the guy replied that 9m for SLE is great. he DID add to the topic.
And he IS correct. 25knots for most bridled 9m is the sweet spot of fun.

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dyyylan
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Re: Once you go ..... you never go back??

Postby dyyylan » Mon Jul 14, 2014 11:59 pm

my addition to the topic was that there isn't a huge difference in top end between c kites and bridled kites. if anything a proper bridled kite has more range because the angle of attack can be changed more. with a c kite you can edge hard and push the kite to the edge of the window but you can do the same with some bridled kites

it is important to name the brand/model, because different kites sit in different places in the window, for example low aspect deltas drag ass and just pull like a train, effectively limiting their top end because the have so much drag. other SLEs have almost infinite depower, like the LF NRG, Edge, Screamer, etc because they can be edged so far forward out of the window

I flew an older LF envy 9m in 40-46 mph wind (i weigh 140 lbs) and when i was able to actually get enough of an edge the LE deformed so bad it looked like one of the naish sigma shapes. but 25 knots? i dont really think about pumping up a 7m until a few more than that

disclaimer: i fly c kites

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Re: Once you go ..... you never go back??

Postby Jbrook » Tue Jul 15, 2014 12:58 am

Have had same experience with 2 bridled kites, could be a variance in the type of wind where you and or I ride? Maybe wind was gusting higher than 25 dont know, didnt mean to be rude. Anyway don't want to name the kites because not here to brand bash was just wondering if anyone experienced what I felt today? The high end on the Vegas 9 is not like any other 9 mtr I have felt have been super comfortable on it in winds in the 35 knot range which for sure would have been over for the bridled 9mtr kites I have flew in the past. :thumb:
Last edited by Jbrook on Tue Jul 15, 2014 1:23 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Once you go ..... you never go back??

Postby Starsky » Tue Jul 15, 2014 1:00 am

I think there is quite a difference between C kites and bridled kites as a whole and thats pretty much the reason they are still in production. Range isn't that much different, but they deliver power pretty differently, and as with anything kite, its a trade off. C kites are a little more physical to ride and that changes the experience markedly. They by and large have more bar pressure which also adds to the immediate difference in feel. You get the depower differently and are essentially throwing the kite around with your edge, where thats not at all the case with bridled kites. As a result jumping is a different technique as is wave riding. Downloop a C too hard in a bottom turn and you quickly see where you've sacrificed and can think about it as you try and get back to where you were on the wave. No question there is a place for both. That extra pressure feedback and their general stall resistance make the power band easier to access and more consistent, but there is no shut off, so looping and riding in gusty conditions can give you more than you bargain for. There is more momentum and planning in riding a C as you need more awareness of where it is in the window, which doesn't suit everyone, or everywhere, but once you get in synch with it, like riding unhooked or essentially 2 line, it can be sublime. Going back and forth between bridled and C's a few times over my kiting career, I can appreciate what was lost from the sport when it went from 2 to 4 line. Those moments where you manage to totally synchronize wind, water, and kite with no depower (unhooked) are some of the best single moments in my life. Watch some old footage of Lou to get an idea of how much time that guy could spend in that zone and how it made for fascinating and fluid riding. I'm not in any way a proponent of 2 line kites, but since unhooking is more comfortable and consistent on a C, there will always be a place for them amongst riders who get to the level to appreciate it. For the average punter, there is no need for a C kite. Their best qualities shine when you stop riding in straight lines.

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Re: Once you go ..... you never go back??

Postby edt » Tue Jul 15, 2014 2:21 am

jbrook i know what you are talking about many bridled kites are unpredictable in gusty conditions. But you're wrong to think all bridled kites are like that, it depends on the model, manufacturer and year, for instance, the long bridled envy's from 2010 through 2013 have a tendency to range through the wind window in gusty conditions, while the 2014 envy is remarkably solid in gusty conditions, this is because of a bridle and connection change. The north rebel I think is one of the most predictable kite, just as predictable as a c kite and handles gusty conditions better than any kite I have ridden but it is a 5 line kite so it's not for me. I know the wainman boss has a very solid feel in the air.

You want to make it just about C kites vs every other bridled kite but I think you must name names, every bridled kite is different. On the other hand, every C kite is more alike than different, every c kite is well powered in loops, incredibly predictable, handles well in gusts but of course not much depower.

There are some bridled kites from 5 years ago like the old 2:1 kites with the pulley bar they had incredible depower but were terrible in gusty conditions, paradoxical right but the kite was so laggy and hard to know what it would do that all the depower in the world doesn't help. so depower is meaningless unless you can predict what the kite will do. The range of types of bridled kites is enormous, there are just so many different models. That's why sometimes a C kite might feel better than a poorly designed bridled kite. What I like in a bridled kite for gusty conditions is a small bridle, no pulleys or sliders, rear connnections, a predictable feel, and the ability to hold its shape and not taco when it gets up over 40 knots. I still think it's hard to beat the north rebel for a gusty day, very old design but eats the gusts up a really solid kite.

I really like the new designs from the last year or so, the kite manufacturers have stepped up their game. the switch away from mini 5th to single center flagging means there is less design constraint now so they can shorten the bridles and give us more responsive better feeling kites.

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Re: Once you go ..... you never go back??

Postby g00se » Tue Jul 15, 2014 11:32 am

edt wrote:..the switch away from mini 5th to single center flagging means there is less design constraint now so they can shorten the bridles and give us more responsive better feeling kites.


Very good point :thumb: I had never thought about it this way before, but indeed the fact you don't need a mile of bridle to make sure the kite flags on 2 front lines (mini 5th) really opens up the design options!


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